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Old 15-05-2009, 13:43   #46
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I'm not sure why no-one has thought of this yet but there is a perfect boat out there:

Self-righting and self righteous catamaran with double rotating unstayed masts whose hulls can separated for double your fun water ballast extendable centerboard puffy chested mono sailing.

I think I'm going to head down to the patent office right now. Don't worry over my abbreviated biography, I really know what I am talking about.
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Old 23-05-2009, 13:13   #47
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Sink or Swim

Richard

I am a believer in multihulls, perhaps due to 30 years of windsurfing (I cannot quite get to grips with sailing vessels that don't plane). But is it true that all multihulls will float when holed?


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Old 23-05-2009, 16:40   #48
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Kind of tired of seeing the title of this post inferring that in the same conditions a cat owner would be ?safely? Clinging to an overturned boat while the ballasted mono has sunk. My first boat was a 23 foot sloop. Open transom. Good seamanship practice dictates in severe conditions hatches are battened and harnesses are deployed. I weathered hurricane conditions during the no name storm which battered florida in 80s december. The boat was thrown by huge breaking waves twice where it landed with the mast submerged. Both times it righted quickly and no water entered the boat. Another instance I was crossing the gulfstream from bimini and a tropical depression formed right over my head that had sufficient winds to blow semis off the road when it hit miami. I'm not going to estimate the wave height that night but the boat felt tiny . Other than a boat falling off a wave and getting structurally destroyed a properly designed battened ballasted monohull will take what nature throws at it. If you think you could have survived clinging to a hull with waves pounding down on top of you your just kidding yourself. The above circumstances took place in a boat I paid 3k for. Cats are safer B[£@?*#%! I'm not falling for it for a second.
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Old 23-05-2009, 17:53   #49
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You're assuming a cat would have been turned over in the same conditions. Not neccessarily so. Cats have much greater righting moments.

In the Queen's Birthday storm several monohulls were rolled over repeatedly. (And one sank.) The catamarans stayed upright.

But I agree that clinging to an upturned boat in a storm is unlikely to keep you alive, which is why it's a good idea for a multihull to have provision to access the inside of the boat when floating inverted.
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Old 23-05-2009, 17:54   #50
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Richard

I am a believer in multihulls, perhaps due to 30 years of windsurfing (I cannot quite get to grips with sailing vessels that don't plane). But is it true that all multihulls will float when holed?


David Harper
UK
No, some can sink.
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Old 23-05-2009, 18:03   #51
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Kind of tired of seeing the title of this post
One of the nicer aspects of this forum are separate Multihull and monohull areas.

You post has little to do with the question posed and nothing to do with multihulls. The moderators let this stand?
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Old 23-05-2009, 19:40   #52
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I am glad to see that Mr. Woods loves and believes in sailboats and catamarans in particular. I for one have worked with hundreds of people who do not believe in what they do, and they arn't worth a **** that is all of them combined.
decktapper.
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Old 23-05-2009, 20:23   #53
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Didn't have anything to do with post? Did you read original post? My point is if a properly designed mono sinks its either the result of poor seamanship or neglect of systems. Mr Woods threw out some arguable statements fully expecting contrasting opinions. 20' seas requiring f10 is another one I wouldn't agree with. The gulfstream would be my example. Last week the jax NOAA weather report listed 18 to 20 seas with gale force winds from NE.Wind acting against current. I will agree most dismastings etc.. Are operator error. Coming up to the St johns inlet last week with a black wall approaching less than a mile off and special marine warnings blaring I was surprised to pass another boat flying full canvas.
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Old 23-05-2009, 22:30   #54
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Didn't have anything to do with post? Did you read original post? My point is if a properly designed mono sinks its either the result of poor seamanship or neglect of systems.
Or the boat hit something - or the rigging broke and the mast punched a hole in it, or the ports caved in, etc etc etc.
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Old 23-05-2009, 22:46   #55
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My point is if a properly designed mono sinks its either the result of poor seamanship or neglect of systems.

Which was the case here? : Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/news.asp?key=4153

here perhaps?
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Old 24-05-2009, 02:30   #56
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I love that video of Australia One sinking, makes me laugh everytime, it happens so quickly and smoothly.

If you were out a long way from help, you would barely have time to get your grab bag, let alone get the liferaft out of it's locker, and remember those guys were extremely strong and fit, it just shows that if this happens on a mono hull with normal cruising people, you would be 99% stuffed, at least on a multihull if inverted you would have time to collect your thoughts and make time to save yourself.

There is no comparison.
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Old 24-05-2009, 03:46   #57
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The breakup of a boat which was designed to just survive about 200 hours of fair weather racing is hardly a good example. Wasn't it Ben Lexcen who once said - " If it hasn't broken, its too heavy".

The crux of the original original post was the question posed: “why don't mono hull sailors demand unsinkable boats”?

They too could then cling to an inverted hull along with the best of us. And any illusion of multis being a more survivable option will be lost. An unsinkable and yet self righting boat, imagine that.

It is curious that mainstream designers, builders and buyers have stayed away in droves from such a concept.
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Old 24-05-2009, 07:53   #58
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1. Yes, multihulls do occasionally sink. (I've taken claims for some). But if they do sink, it's usually much more slowly, so the crew has more time to collect safety gear and make an organized exit. They don't have all that lead pulling them down to the bottom. One that I took a claim for was severely overloaded, and it didn't sink due to flipping.
2. The vast majority of cats float when damaged or flipped. The common misconception is that the hatches in the bottom are escape hatches. If the vessel did flip, they are for re-entry into the boat if you need to get supplies or escape the weather.
3. We find when sailing our cat alongside our monohull friends, at the end of the day they are wet, exhausted & often recovering from seasickness, but we arrive first, dry, feeling great, and are ready to go explore the island & play. The difference in comfort is remarkable. We owned a monohull for 15 years before buying the cat. The monohull was prettier, but the cat is more comfortable.
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Old 30-05-2009, 12:33   #59
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And less than a week later, also in Latitude 38 is this

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

San Francisco-based cruiser Jerry Morgan, 72, and a Kiwi crewmember, 39, were rescued last Friday after Morgan's Trintella 53 Sumatra sank 320 miles off the Australian coast. [Edit: The rest of the story can be accessed at the link above.]
==========================

Presumably both this boat and the J44 mentioned above were considered well maintained boats sailed by experienced sailors???

To Forsalebyowner: Clearly wind against tide conditions make for steeper waves. The significant wave heights for F8 are 4m and for F10 7m

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

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Old 30-05-2009, 15:36   #60
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And less than a week later, also in Latitude 38 is this

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

San Francisco-based cruiser Jerry Morgan, 72, and a Kiwi crewmember, 39, were rescued last Friday after Morgan's Trintella 53 Sumatra sank 320 miles off the Australian coast. [Edit: The rest of the story can be accessed at the link above.]
==========================

Presumably both this boat and the J44 mentioned above were considered well maintained boats sailed by experienced sailors???

To Forsalebyowner: Clearly wind against tide conditions make for steeper waves. The significant wave heights for F8 are 4m and for F10 7m

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

Woods Designs Sailing Catamarans


So, if your cat capsizes everything is just peachy?

What happened here?

In January 2009, the Queequeg II capsized in the Indian Ocean, over 200 miles east of Madagascar, Quen Cultra and crew member Joe Strykowski were lost at sea.
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