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Old 12-01-2010, 21:11   #16
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Regarding the Manta...

Jim,

I would love to hear any more feed-back regarding this boat you come up with(as to final analysis). I need single-handed sailing ability. In truth, I will be looking more at the MK II than the MK IV due strictly to price tag concerns.

BTW, What do you think of the Manta Mk II?

Thank you,

Ty

PS, Wow, hearing about Haiti right now!!
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Old 13-01-2010, 00:19   #17
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Hi Ty

I'm not a multihull expert at all. I have sailed offshore a lot in monohulls and at the moment I have a 10m Trimaran that is great fun. But I have done a lot of research, sailed a few cats and after a while some personal themes start to emerge.
I'd like the biggest cat I can expect to single hand. For me, this is around the 40ft mark. 38 ft would be better but I'm not sure I'm going to get load carrying and performance I want in that length.
At the moment I'm looking at a Belize 43 and I think the Manta 42 would be similar. To singlehand either boat I think I would have to sail conservatively (reef early, reef often) and I would need to set up systems on the boat that allow me to do this by myself. The Manta tries to address this (single line reefing but only one ?, lines leading to the cockpit, electric winch).
For me, I must be able to reef or douse the main without luffing into the wind. Now I can do this easily on my tri but on a boat with a bigger sail area this could be a problem. The last place I want to be is charging down wind with a following sea and no way to reef the main without rounding up. The video shows the Manta doing this in light conditions but in heavier weather it might need a downhaul of some sort to pull the main down.
I've got to say I'm not a big fan of lines leading back to the cockpit. They often create clutter and friction when trying to use them. Manta tries to address this with clutches and color coding but that little bag the lines go into is going to create a tangle for sure. Non of these things are deal breakers it just means being aware of the flaws in the systems. The single most important piece of equipment in the Manta's setup (imo) would be the electric winch.
I have a bimini on my tri. It's great because the sun in my part of the world is fierce. When I am working under the bimini I cannot see the mainsail. IMO it is very difficult to raise and lower the main from under a bimini. For that reason I moved all my lines back to the mast. I am more exposed there but when things get difficult I can see what the main is doing.
These are the sort of things I am grappling with at the moment as I look for a boat that suits me.

Jim
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Old 23-03-2010, 09:41   #18
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Type of boat

Hello,

New to the site but I may have some insight into your situation. I am 58 years old. Been sailing all my life. Mostly on small inland lakes in my youth, then the Great Lakes and the Bahamas in my adult years. I now have a 37 ft. Crowther Spindrift extended to 42 ft. that I sail on the Great Lakes. This boat was designed in about 1974, updated and my boat built in 1990. I have single handed this boat up and down Lake Michigan a few times. Winds up to 30. My requirements for an offshore boat in order to be able to handle the boat in any weather would be to have a good autopilot, small main and larger headsail as the headsail is much easer reefed going down wind behind the main and the smaller main is easier to handle, a good downhaul on the main, and at least one power winch. My lines all lead to the cockpit but are at the edges of the soft bimini so I can see what is happening overhead. My older wheel-pilot is not sufficient to handle the changes downwind in heavy air. You may have a problem finding a newer cat with a relative small main but I have sailed my boat in very brisk conditions with just the main at full hoist and can work to windward, fairly slow but still make progress.

I am mostly a port to port sailor. Sail during the day, cocktails and a nice sunset at anchor with nothing broke at the end of the day makes me happy. I think if I were going to cross an ocean I would find a friend or two or SOMBODY to go along for the ride. At my age I do not want to be in a position of getting stuck in a gale, maybe sick, and not have enough energy to save myself or the boat. The one thing I have learned singlehanding on my boat is it will take much more than I can. I love my cat for many reasons. She is fast compaired to any mono I have sailed on, but the main reason I love my cat is at anchor. Learned that in the Bahamas. Many anchorages around the world have a surge that can make living on a mono at anchor not very comfortable. Enjoy the nets up front sailing and at anchor, and the great views out of the deck house. Good luck with your search, and I agree get on the water as much as you can on as many boats as you can. For now I will sail, but I think I see a power boat in my future, I hope the distant future.

Dan Schweitzer
S/V Now What?
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:14   #19
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I can answer some of the Manta questions.

All halyards, sheets, reefing lines and vang/boombrake controls lead to the cockpit through a well-designed and organized system of organizers and clutches. The line tails fall into a very deep and wide cubby box at the helm which helps a lot to prevent tangling because the lines are not rolled up tight and pushed into a small area. The reef lines lead to a separate sheet bag at the helm.

There are two reef points standard on the Manta and both are accessed and achieved from the helm.

This system is the easiest single-hand operating system on any catamaran. All sail raising, reefing and tacking is done by a single person who never leaves the helm. The jib is self-tacking and has a downhaul and lazy jacks for lowering. The asymmetric spinnaker is on a furler. The sail handling and control systems work very well and have minimal friction or chafe concerns.

There is a clear hatch in the hardtop directly over the helm that provides good visibility to the sails.

It is difficult to reef the main downwind due to the swept back shrouds. This is true on almost all catamarans. However, the shrouds are covered with a pvc tube and the main has a Tides Marine track, so one only needs to head up enough to ease the pressure of the sail against the shrouds to put in a reef. This still requires one to turn up until the apparent wind is just ahead of the beam. Again, not many cats can reef easily downwind due to the shroud angle and full battens.

We have no problem sailing this boat singlehanded, which makes passages much easier because the off watch person never needs to be bothered.

In fact, single-handing is really the only way you can sail this boat - the way it is set up, there is nothing for another person to do!

Mark
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:36   #20
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Manta

I have been aboard a Manta a couple of times. Never sailed on them. But I can say I was very impressed with the layout for sailing as well as the living space. Being a sailor that is sailing well beyond my means I was limited to an older ( read in need of repair ) boat. Been doing the work to improve along with the lets go sailing and fish routine. Hope to head out of the Great Lakes and trade my 3 months of weekends in the summer to 4 months in the winter in the Carib.
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Old 23-03-2010, 14:16   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkhard View Post
I know it is a widely discussed topic and fulfilling the colregs in regard of lookout is an issue. But here I am investigating the technical aspect of what' feasable in regards to a cat to solo sail.
I am comfortable with my trusted Island Packet 37 monohull and would take her out anytime. I will start my cruisng live in 18 month and want to go to the Bahamas for the winter 2011/2012 to cross the Atlantic the following early summer. I will consider crew for the passage but want to be independent as well. I am considering to make the transition to a cat for more than one reason.
The question is what works and what doesn't. What size is bigg enough for ocean passages and small enough for singlehanding. I am intersted in remarks from cruisers who have some experience in this field. The good the bad and the ugly, everything is interesting.
About myself:
53 years joung. 6'2" tall and big. Average sailor with a couple of weeks cat experience (10 days bareboat skipper BVI, some Florida Gulf coast, one week to and from the Bahamas from Florida). Some shorter offshore trips on monohulls (Baltic, Gulf, US Eastcoast
Thanks for any input.
V,

Do a couple of searches and you will find a wealth of info on cruising cats in terms of size and being able to single-hand them (i.e. reefing from the cockpit). Yes, you can reef going downwind and there's a thread on CF for it.

A google search for "What's the biggest cat you would single-hand?" will provide some good info as well.

Be sure to look at CF member 'maxingout's' posts and his web page. He circumnavigated on a Privilege 39 (didn't singlehand, but great, great info).

In short, if you would feel comfy taking your IP37 "out anytime", there are many cats that will give you the same level of confidence and more.

Fair Winds,
Mike
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Old 16-07-2010, 17:05   #22
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Singlehanding offshore Lagoon 380

I have done some single handing sailing on my Lagoon 380 and a lot of short handed sailing. In my view a catamaran much more than 38 feet would be too much to handle in strong winds if anything at all went wrong. In general I would also be of the view that long distance cruising on a Cat is a far less tiring experience than on a monohull and personally I would feel safer on a platform which has no lead keel to sink the boat if something catastrophic happened. However I should also be honest and say that the sailing experience on a monohull is more enjoyable than on a Cat.

My real experience is limited to the Lagoon 380 which is a nice boat to spend long periods of time sailing. It is essentially an RV of the sea so a good way to tour around. It is also very easy to own with a great owners forum and easy access to spares and replacement parts.

Best wishes
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Old 16-07-2010, 18:46   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkhard View Post
But here I am investigating the technical aspect of what' feasable in regards to a cat to solo sail.
I am comfortable with my trusted Island Packet 37 monohull and would take her out anytime.
This is definately not meant to be a cat v mono question. I just want to know what you experienced cat sailors do. All solo sailors have to sleep sometime. No problem on a mono. Make sure the weather pattern is fairly stable and just set the sails a little bit more conservatively than if you were awake and go and have a sleep. If the wind picks up quickly while you're asleep, then it might tip you on your ear, but it's more annoying than anything else. What do you do on a cat? I take it you would have to sleep in the cockpit (mainsheet in hand?) so that you could "smell" a windshift if sailing solo.

Greg
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Old 27-08-2010, 15:02   #24
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This post has been out of commision for awhile, but I would like to bring it back...
I liked Greg's question from above, what do you do on a cat singlehandling? Also,Volks, what's the latest? Jpemb7, same question? By the way, I am now convinced that a sailboat is the way to go for me as apposed to a stink-potter. (That's a relief!)

Now, due to the stockmarket reversal, I am leaning to mono, small, simple, in the Nor'Sea 27 range or just as possible, the Westsail 32. On the other hand, if Obama brings the Dow back I would still opt for a Cat. Let's have a political debate on the possibilities of this happening and them move on to which is better, mono or multi ?

Bring it!
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Old 28-08-2010, 06:47   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleebana View Post
This is definately not meant to be a cat v mono question. I just want to know what you experienced cat sailors do. All solo sailors have to sleep sometime. No problem on a mono. Make sure the weather pattern is fairly stable and just set the sails a little bit more conservatively than if you were awake and go and have a sleep. If the wind picks up quickly while you're asleep, then it might tip you on your ear, but it's more annoying than anything else. What do you do on a cat? I take it you would have to sleep in the cockpit (mainsheet in hand?) so that you could "smell" a windshift if sailing solo.

Greg
reef before sleep. the times you don't the wind picks up.

plan your angles to prevent the boat from powering up to much during gusts.

cheers,
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Old 08-09-2010, 16:15   #26
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I own and sail a Lagoon 380 most of the time solo in the Caribbean.
There is absolutely NO problem sailing solo in terms of handling the boat. Staying awake on longer passages and managing the sleeping time is different.
The lagoon,as some other cats, has all sheets and lines coming back to the cockpit. No need to go to the mast for anything.
Reefs are taken from the cockpit; Very easily once you know your boat.
The lagoon does not sail really faster with full main vs 1 reef so if I know the wind should be most probably above 17 Kts, I hoist the main with 1 reef .
If I still have to take a second reef, I prepare my boat, my lines and the best angle to the wind, and there I go.
The lagoon has 2 Yanmar 27 HP each giving you 6 to 7 kts in calm seas.
Those type of cats are not made to go upwind, engine or sails. Wait for the wind to change direction.....
I would never be able to maneouver a monohull or single engine trawler in a tiny marina as I can with a twin engine cat.
Enjoy life at sea....
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