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Old 07-07-2011, 21:46   #46
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Originally Posted by Factor
The TRUE wind didnt go from 15 to 60 in 15 seconds. Didn't and indeed can't.
I would not say that loud enough for the gods to hear. While I've not seen 15 to 60. I have seen enough surprise explosions of the zero to 35 often enough that 15 to 60 seems entirely possible.
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Old 08-07-2011, 00:30   #47
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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I would not say that loud enough for the gods to hear. While I've not seen 15 to 60. I have seen enough surprise explosions of the zero to 35 often enough that 15 to 60 seems entirely possible.
The wiki on microbursts says they can produce winds in excess of 145 knots "There are more things in heaven and earth...."

Tom.
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Old 08-07-2011, 00:47   #48
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Re: Single Handed Cats

Makes me wonder. So ... are catamarans so much more difficult/different than monohulls to handle?
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:36   #49
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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I must say I learn so much on this forum. Recently I learned that all that tacking I do without backwinding the jib is not possible. I am glad some one told me I was breaking the laws of physics there - who knows what might have happened if I kept tacking by just turning the wheel.

I also found out that I cant do ocean passages with outboards, recently. Thats another excellent learning because having done it a few times I was obviously bordering on delusional.

I now find that I cannot single hand a multi. Again - excellent news because I have been doing it for many years now and obviously I have been fiddling with the laws of nature and I wouldn't want that to happen.
Factor you are just lucky to be alive.... You're really pushing the boundaries there mate...... Backwinding the jib just causes chafffe anyways doesnt it? the guy must sail a lot of hobbie cats,
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:12   #50
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Re: Single Handed Cats

Factor, you haven't enjoyed sailing in conditions that change from benign to unmanageable in seconds.

I crewed in the 2008 Mills Race and it was one of those times. We were upwind with a full main/#3 with 17 true that became 70 true in seconds. No rain, no lightning, no wind lines we could see (night race), just bang! The big breeze lasted about 2 minutes then went back to 17 true. We laid down with the spreaders in the water but did not break anything. Others weren't as lucky, there were shredded sails, broken rigs and a capsized F27.

Now I understand your perspective, youíve never seen that have you? I want to sail where you sail. J

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Old 08-07-2011, 16:10   #51
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I appreciate the info. And I certainly understand that I need more miles..(and more salt) before I take the plunge.

Is there a rule of thumb break point on the size of a cat that you would need at least two people to manager her?.
I reckon buy the biggest you can afford.
Takes little extra skill or effort as size increases.
Auto-pilot control is same on 35 as 70 ft.
Winches should require same effort.
Most important positive - All things being equal larger boat is more seaworthy. I.e the greater the length the less frequent the fright. And faster.

Only negative is less margin of error in confined space.
Bridge clearance is issue: 46 footer would probably be designed to scrape under 65' usa bridges.
But to afford requires: initial cost/taxes; insurance; maintenance; decorating/storing increases.
I reckon is great single handed boat.
Good luck
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Old 08-07-2011, 20:31   #52
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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Factor, you haven't enjoyed sailing in conditions that change from benign to unmanageable in seconds. .... Blah blah
With all due respect - you have no idea where I have sailed.
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Old 08-07-2011, 21:07   #53
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Re: Single Handed Cats

Your words define your experience.

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The TRUE wind didnt go from 15 to 60 in 15 seconds. Didn't and indeed can't.
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Old 08-07-2011, 22:13   #54
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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Old 08-07-2011, 23:14   #55
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Makes me wonder. So ... are catamarans so much more difficult/different than monohulls to handle?

Not much different and no more difficult overall. Some things are easier, some harder.

Obviously they are bigger in marinas, so they take up more of the available channel width.

IMO sail handling is actually easier, because you're working on a more stable platform.
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Old 08-07-2011, 23:27   #56
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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IMO sail handling is actually easier, because you're working on a more stable platform.
That's hard for me to visualize. The hulls still have to rise/fall with the waves, and with two hulls wouldn't that happen twice as often with a catamaran? I can see that catamarans won't lean away from the wind as much as a mono, unless the cat is about to flip over. A heavy-displacement monohull, I'd think, would be more stable than a light-displacement boat that floats like a leaf. Would like to see a comparison in a tank test.
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Old 09-07-2011, 00:37   #57
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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That's hard for me to visualize. The hulls still have to rise/fall with the waves, and with two hulls wouldn't that happen twice as often with a catamaran? I can see that catamarans won't lean away from the wind as much as a mono, unless the cat is about to flip over. A heavy-displacement monohull, I'd think, would be more stable than a light-displacement boat that floats like a leaf. Would like to see a comparison in a tank test.
This gets complicated quickly and there are a wide variety of mutlihulls (and catamarans) so it is dangerous to make very general statements because there will be many exceptions. That said, many, even most medium and large cruising cats have relatively small water planes wrt their displacement and quite a lot of roll inertia. To a large extent the the slow rise and fall folks associate with a heavy displacement monohull is a result of putting a lot of weight on a modest sized waterplane. A catamaran with a similar ratio (perhaps a bit lighter but also a with bit narrower hulls in sum) will have similarly slow heaving motions. Most cruising cats don't really float much more like leafs than typical cruising monos. But, the cats differ from both the leafs monos when it comes to how they react to roll excitation. A narrow, heavy monohull may not have much form stability and may roll easily through many degrees until the center of gravity is well out of line with the center of buoyancy. When excited by waves of the right period and in the absence of much damping from the sails there can be a good deal of rolling. A heavish, narrowish hulled cat generally has a much reduced and often, IMO, pleasanter rolling motion even when there is little or no damping from the sails. The narrow hulls react slowly to the waves and the very high inertia slows the period substantially and the total range of motion tends to be comparatively quite small. Generally I think it is correct to say cruising cats are more stable and have smaller motions than cruising monos... And, I think some have a more comfortable motion too, but comfort, of course, is a matter of taste.

Tom.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:04   #58
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Re: Single Handed Cats

Here's another factor; the older we get, the less abuse we can take. At sixty-four, I no longer relish hopping around a rolling deck in a cold rain to move a fender in time to intercept a bare piling.

My next boat will be smaller, and light enough that I can fend off without popping a hamstring. It will have all the mod cons i know how to fix and none that I don't. It won't require winches or sails bigger than $1800, and everything will be easy to get to, because my guests won't be so young either. It doesn't have to be any bigger than enough for a good sized berth, an enclosed head and shower, and refrigeration.

In theory, I should have had a chance at our big boat when I was rich and skinny.
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Old 09-07-2011, 17:56   #59
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With a bit of thought and planning you should be able to do this, i singlehand my lagoon 440 from time to time and docking is the main issue when i get in.
I would have thought with a new beautiful 46 there would be a few voulunteers around!
One consideration on a cat you do not get as great a workout as on a mono so your fitness and energy should stay up longer,alsothey tend to be underpowered in the sail dept so if reefed accordingly big changes in wind should not give you too much grief.
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Old 09-07-2011, 19:08   #60
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Re: Single Handed Cats

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
That's hard for me to visualize. The hulls still have to rise/fall with the waves, and with two hulls wouldn't that happen twice as often with a catamaran? I can see that catamarans won't lean away from the wind as much as a mono, unless the cat is about to flip over. A heavy-displacement monohull, I'd think, would be more stable than a light-displacement boat that floats like a leaf. Would like to see a comparison in a tank test.
Mono's roll much more. Not infrequently on our old heavy displacement steel mono I'd be hanging onto the mast looking straight down at water. On the cat, I'm more than 3 metres away from the water when I'm at the mast.

But simply, cats roll much less than mono's do, whether in a swell affected anchorage or at sea. The movement is higher frequency, but the amplitude is much less. It's pretty much like being on a bus or train.

The story about the coffee not spilling is true, up to a point of course.
We've sailed in 30+ with wind against tide, and the coffee really does not spill. Cups stay on tables without fiddles etc etc. We have a little flatscreen TV which is simply standing on it's own base, and has done for around 5000 miles.
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