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Old 10-09-2015, 09:14   #16
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
I'm not delusional and you're incorrect. The listing broker can accept less than 10% if he or she wants. This is exactly what took place in my case. The broker gave up a significant portion of the intended 10% commission in order for the seller's bottom price and my top price to meet. It would be idiotic, if not unethical, for a broker to torpedo a deal just because he/she got 5% instead of 10%. The next offer may come from a buyer with a broker and he/she'll be getting only 5% anyway.

What is delusional is thinking that with a buying broker you have someone acting on your behalf. Maybe. More like acting on their behalf.

Dave
I would tend to also agree with you. Our last two boats were purchased without any broker involvement at any level. If you have the knowledge to buy your own boat and unless a reputable broker is going to offer a form of warranty what are the meaningful benefits? Place adverts that you are looking (specifying no brokers) and let sellers come to you. On our last boat we did not use a surveyor either and the insurance company accepted the previous surveyors report which was 18 months old. This all assumes the buyer knows what they are doing. The main benefits are the ability for the seller to reduce his price accordingly and the buyer gets to talk and ask questions directly from the seller.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:16   #17
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

We used a buyers broker when we bought our boat. As we were on opposite coasts, it worked out fantastic. Plus, we believe he was as to negotiate a much lower price than we could have on our own. Would absolutely do it again. If you're looking for a boat in Florida. I'd be happy to recommend him.


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Old 10-09-2015, 09:45   #18
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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Originally Posted by Training Wheels View Post
We used a buyers broker when we bought our boat. As we were on opposite coasts, it worked out fantastic. Plus, we believe he was as to negotiate a much lower price than we could have on our own. Would absolutely do it again. If you're looking for a boat in Florida. I'd be happy to recommend him.


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Hi Training Wheels - interesting - but what did your broker do to achieve a lower price than you believe you could have got on your own? In our case I believe it would have pushed the cost up as an element of commission would have to be factored in. We did our own survey and negotiation and reached a price we were happy to pay. Were our circumstances different besides the geographical issue of not being where the boat was?
Best regards.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:56   #19
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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Hi Training Wheels - interesting - but what did your broker do to achieve a lower price than you believe you could have got on your own? In our case I believe it would have pushed the cost up as an element of commission would have to be factored in. We did our own survey and negotiation and reached a price we were happy to pay. Were our circumstances different besides the geographical issue of not being where the boat was?
Best regards.
After inspecting my boat, I asked my broker to adjust the offer price to X$. He suggested I further lower that price by 5K based on the list of things. That final offer was accepted by the seller. Right there, he earned his commission.

Our circumstances were the same as the previous poster. Buying a boat 1000s of miles away.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:00   #20
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

I have done it both ways. First with a broker. (Cal Landau at Edwards Yacht Sales) who had listed one boat I was interested in who then when asked set up viewings of other boats that he did not represent. He did not ask for a personal contract .
We signed a deal at a price that we liked with no talk of commissions, as long as I like the deal how much someone gets paid is not my business. We later backed out of the deal and he was very gracious.
The next time I bought from the listing agent (Crystal and Chris Rundlett from the multihull company in Grenada) Once again they aranaged viewing the hauling of the boat for survey (my surveyor) ,and helped with moorings after the purchase and picked us up from the airport.

Once again I was not interested in how much they made as long as I can live with bill.
The decent thing to do is not try to cut someone out after they have done the leg work
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Old 10-09-2015, 15:12   #21
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

It absolutely makes sense to have a buyers broker, they can help immensely in the negotiations and keep the buyer protected from his own emotions and provide and objective point of view. Also all deposits are held by that broker that has your best interests in mind during those negotiations.

Someone is going to get paid the commission when a listed yacht sells, be it your broker or the listing agent. There is a slight advantage buying from the listing agent since they have more room to discount the commission, however many large brokerages will refuse to discount since they have advertising costs involved.

The other possible real value is the networking and connections a broker can provide for refitting/outfitting. Also if the broker has experience in these fields his advise can be invaluable. As an ex production builder and project manager, I can be hired as a consultant post sale, OR if I am hired as a buyers broker I throw in the consulting and oversight of the refitting/outfitting to offer value most brokers cannot.
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Old 10-09-2015, 17:40   #22
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

There has been some misinformation here & some correct information. The seller pays the commission, not the buyer. If there are 2 brokers they split the commission & the listing broker simply gets half as much. There is no increase in price if you have a broker represent you so it's basically a free service to you. Sometimes these transactions can get complicated so having a professional on your side can be of great benefit. Of course this would not apply to boats for sale by owner where there is no listing agent. In that case, if your broker negotiates a purchase, you would be responsible for the commission.
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Old 10-09-2015, 18:24   #23
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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I tend to take anything a broker says with a grain of salt.
If there were two brokers involved I would have to have two grains of salt.

I've never used a buyers broker to buy a house, or a car, rv,etc. The only reason I can see to use one is extra help in locating what I am looking for, but in this internet age I don't think that is of much value.

To each their own.
I have purchased both boats and real estate with and without a broker/agent (this is in USA). In my case (yours may be different) I simply assumed and demanded the percentage that my (absent) broker would have received.
Brokers sometimes can be a help but every one of them has a conflict of interest built-in to your relationship. Buy/Seller BEWARE.

The internet is a powerful tool for true democracy and if you use it carefully you can serve your own interests best. (INMHO)
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Old 10-09-2015, 18:41   #24
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

People that think surfing the internet makes them an expert could very well be the people that would benefit most from hiring a professional. Smart people know what they don't know.
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Old 10-09-2015, 22:01   #25
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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People that think surfing the internet makes them an expert could very well be the people that would benefit most from hiring a professional. Smart people know what they don't know.

Well said and the exact reason I got a broker.. He pointed out **** I would have never saw!
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:54   #26
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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I Gladwell's book Blink he cited a study in which a comparison was made between the price real estate agents sold their personal homes for, relative to the market average, and the price obtained for their listed clients.

The study was damning - agents waited for significantly higher prices when selling their own homes verses those of their listed clients.

Agents will generally deny their inclination to do that either because they or dishonest or unconsciously biased for their own rewards.

What I'm trying to discern is what value the , buyer brokers bring to me in exchange for my agreement only to buy through them. .
Dear PS,

I am a broker and would put it in practical way.

Let me ask if You monitor the market on Your own and on a regular basis for the boat You need, or at this stage You are just busy with case studies?

Time is valuable resourse. If You want a boat You can take Your time and find it and spend Your time. You can ask a Broker to do it instead, i.e. Broker will work for You and will claim to be paid for his job done.

The other level of relations between You and a Broker is possible due to internet-based solutions and possibilities offered by, say, CruisersForums, where You can place Your BOAT WANTED request.

Owners and Brokers will then come to You with what they have. When You see the right boat You will then decide on the purchase/closing process. Broker who has shown You that right boat may be a listing broker, who then will sit on two chairs to do his job equally good for both, Seller and Buyer sides. So You WILL have Your broker in this case.

Otherwise this will be a competitive broker, who may aaa) became Your broker when duly appointed, or bbb) You may try to cut the angles a kick the broker off the deal spending Your additional time to find out the Owner/Seller for direct contacts with the Owner. If bbb) is fair or not will be for You to decide! Broker in this case may find the way to protect his commissions.

Hope above may be sufficient for You to take Your next step.

Cordially,
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Old 13-09-2015, 07:01   #27
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

Phil Berman was my broker when I purchased my Knysna 480. He and his team were helpful before, during, and still now, after the sale. Like every other profession, there are good and bad people within. Phil's experience and expertise helped in the negotiations and jumping through all the hoops that are required. In fact, his expertise helped put me in a much nicer boat than I expected...at the same cost. Good luck.
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Old 13-09-2015, 07:54   #28
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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Phil Berman was my broker when I purchased my Knysna 480. He and his team were helpful before, during, and still now, after the sale. Like every other profession, there are good and bad people within. Phil's experience and expertise helped in the negotiations and jumping through all the hoops that are required. In fact, his expertise helped put me in a much nicer boat than I expected...at the same cost. Good luck.
I have spoken with Tom in the past and he was extremely helpful.
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Old 20-09-2015, 10:21   #29
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

A buyers broker will not give you access to any privately listed boat as there is no listing broker involved so no commission to share.
Similarly he will not show you boats listed abroad because buyers brokers are unheard of in many countries. And listing broker's commission largely depends on the habbits of the listing country. Some listing brokers charge a fixed rate, others charge 4-8% so no margin to give a buyers broker half of this. In italy it seems to be common that the buyer pays the listing broker on top of the listing price.

All these boats will never make it to you through a buyer's broker unless he is paid directly by you.
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Old 20-09-2015, 11:13   #30
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Re: Shopping for Cat with buyers broker or without?

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In italy it seems to be common that the buyer pays the listing broker on top of the listing price.
Correct, but it depends.

Have just contracted Italian broker listed boat initially requesting 5% brokerage + local VAT to be paid to listing broker from Buyer's side.

We have worked out a new formula: Buyer will not pay any commissions on top of agreed price + Buyer's broker will obtain agreed remuneration from Sellers side.
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