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19-08-2014, 19:29
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 64
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Self Tacking Jib
Just got back from 10 days in the VI where I chartered a catana 55. First time on a cat with a self tacking jib. In an area where there are fairly small sea lanes, I ask why would anyone not go with this design? The boat sailed very well (I have chartered from both Voyage and Moorings in the past,- and the Catana outsailed them by a bunch) and was so easy to sail. Really put the fun back into sailing everywhere instead of giving up and using the iron staysail just to not have to tack a few more times. I really didn't see any downside?
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19-08-2014, 19:55
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Re: self tacking jib
I enjoy tacking and would never "put on the iron topsail" just to avoid it.
Self-tacking headsails offer much less control, since the sheeting angle is fixed. You've got no jib car, which is the most important sail control for a headsail.
I have a self-tacking staysail on my boat, and the shape is really never quite right for any point of sail, despite the fact that it has the elliptical track and so forth. I have taken to barber-hauling it to improve the shape. This can work really well, but by the time you go to all that trouble, you've lost any advantage in convenience, so why wouldn't you prefer to have a normally sheeted headsail?
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19-08-2014, 21:48
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#3
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
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Re: self tacking jib
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
Self-tacking headsails offer much less control, since the sheeting angle is fixed. You've got no jib car, which is the most important sail control for a headsail.
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You sure? My boat certainly has a headsail traveller control to go along with its self tacking jib.
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19-08-2014, 22:00
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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Re: self tacking jib
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneboy
Just got back from 10 days in the VI where I chartered a catana 55. First time on a cat with a self tacking jib. In an area where there are fairly small sea lanes, I ask why would anyone not go with this design? The boat sailed very well (I have chartered from both Voyage and Moorings in the past,- and the Catana outsailed them by a bunch) and was so easy to sail. Really put the fun back into sailing everywhere instead of giving up and using the iron staysail just to not have to tack a few more times. I really didn't see any downside?
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A lot of boats, the jib is too long for self tacking. The track would have to be a U-shape to get around the mast. But with my inner jib (storm jib) I just tie of the the windward side, tach, loosen the leeward while easing in the tension and snug up.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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19-08-2014, 22:00
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Re: self tacking jib
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
You sure? My boat certainly has a headsail traveller control to go along with its self tacking jib.
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Mine has a traveler, but no way to move the sheeting angle back or forwards, so you have no control over the relative tension in luff and foot.
The only way I've seen this dealt with in boomless self-tacking jibs is with large clew plates with holes which allows you to slightly change the angle.
Maybe there are other systems, but I haven't seen one.
It's true that this question might be less important on cats with huge roachy mainsails, since not all that much will be expected of the headsails. But if the problem bothers me for a staysail which is only 10% or so of my sail plan, then I reckon it could bother the OP, when we're talking about his principle headsail.
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20-08-2014, 01:08
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#6
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
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Re: self tacking jib
Mine is my principle headsail, I can adjust sheeting position from the cockpit, it works great. As it does on a few hundred similar boats. Some of the highest performing cats in the world have a similar system, eg Outremer.
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20-08-2014, 01:42
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 589
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Re: self tacking jib
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
Mine is my principle headsail, I can adjust sheeting position from the cockpit, it works great. As it does on a few hundred similar boats. Some of the highest performing cats in the world have a similar system, eg Outremer.
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You are missing the point, the prior posters are refering to altering the leach/foot tension through fore and aft twist control. Impossible on a selftacker without an adjustable clew plate or altering the hoist height.
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20-08-2014, 02:02
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#8
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
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Re: self tacking jib
And yet the Outremer 5X manages to sail okay even with one? I will put them in touch with you so you can help them with their sail plan.
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20-08-2014, 03:35
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 589
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Re: self tacking jib
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
And yet the Outremer 5X manages to sail okay even with one? I will put them in touch with you so you can help them with their sail plan.
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I'm sure it manages to sail "OKAY" by your standards. For someone requiring a higher standard different controls may be required.
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20-08-2014, 04:08
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
Mine is my principle headsail, I can adjust sheeting position from the cockpit, it works great. As it does on a few hundred similar boats. Some of the highest performing cats in the world have a similar system, eg Outremer.
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Maybe that's just something I've never seen. Can you post a photo? If it really allows you to adjust sheeting angle, I might want something like it for me own boat. I guess it must be some mechanism for moving the whole traveler fore and aft? Or how does it work?
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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20-08-2014, 04:16
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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If it looks like this, however:
Then it works just like my self-tacking staysail, you have no control over relative tension of luff and foot, so very little control over sail shape.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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20-08-2014, 04:34
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tavernier, Fl
Boat: Outremer 50
Posts: 750
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Re: self tacking jib
The Camberspa jib that I had on my Manta is great for maintaining shape both on and off the wind. Found a couple pictures online.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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20-08-2014, 05:21
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Australia
Boat: Voyage Catamaran 50 ft
Posts: 93
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Re: self tacking jib
Ok both work well! And there is the move towards non-overlapping headsail cruising boats as they are so easy.
If I had non-overlapping, I wouldn't change it just as I would not change the configuration I've got, over lapping, which works great. I can get good sail shape for the length of the genoa track of about 1 meter, in the overall scheme of things not that much really. Different strokes for different folks.
Here are a couple of photos of my overlapping headsail trimmed! And photo of the mainsail on the same tack going up hill.
L&N
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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20-08-2014, 05:26
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,919
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Re: self tacking jib
I once experimented with a line from the clew to the tack, then back to the cockpit. Increasing the tension on it was the same as shifting the car forward, easing it was like car aft. It was handy on one boat to fix a dodgy lead, but it would get caught on anything forward if you weren't careful. It was a useful way to adjust the sheeting angle when the sail was partially rolled, and the track was too short to move the car forward enough. Another line to play with Dockhead. Might fix your shaping issues..
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20-08-2014, 06:19
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: Self Tacking Jib
I am not a great fan of self tacking headsails myself, although I have more miles in monohulls than cats.
If you do have one get your sailmaker to add an adjustable clew plate. By modifying the attachment point of the clew you do have some adjustment of the relative tension on the foot and leech.
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