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Old 23-08-2012, 08:24   #31
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
The trick with Seawind in Vietnam is that they supposedly sent over Aussie workers to supervise the whole thing. They'll likely get sick of that quickly and it will be hard to find skilled replacements.
I'd be there with bells on in a purely supervisory role.
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Old 23-08-2012, 08:26   #32
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Good luck to those whose business model is to exploit "a bowl of rice a day" hungry willing (Dirkdig!) Asian labour and export back to the country of origin.
Exploit Pfft
In what fantasy land is providing jobs and paying the market rate, maybe even above considered exploiting?
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Old 23-08-2012, 09:24   #33
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Re: Seawind Catamarans.

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Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor View Post
For us ignorant americans what exactly is voluntary administration?

It really is a shame. I don't personally care for the design, but they were definitely unique boats...
Think Chapter 11 if in the U.S. or receivership if in Canada.
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Old 23-08-2012, 16:31   #34
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

I think the issue that is being missed here is that the cat market like most other markets is now dominated by large companies enjoying government support, dare I say protection.
It is impossible for companies like Seawind to compete with the large manufacturers who churn out large numbers of boats per year to charter companies whom are also assisted by their government.
Not only do they get better deals from their suppliers they are also able to update their design and introduce more efficient building techniques which make them even more competitive.
Exchange rates are one thing but the Aussie market is so small that local builders are really up against it.
Seawind have done a fantastic job to keep going this long and moving to Asia was probably their only option.
Whilst this is all very sad for the people loosing their jobs, this a worldwide issue effecting all industries.
Let's hope Seawind can survive in some form or other.
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Old 23-08-2012, 16:38   #35
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
The trick with Seawind in Vietnam is that they supposedly sent over Aussie workers to supervise the whole thing. They'll likely get sick of that quickly and it will be hard to find skilled replacements.
And yet the expats building the corsairs have been there for 5 years? I am intrigued as to how you know these things.
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:15   #36
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

Here is something to put it all into context.

What is the average length of an Australian company's long term business plan, 10 - 20 years?

A Chinese company in comparison, 200+ years.

I said:

Quote:
They'll likely get sick of that quickly and it will be hard to find skilled replacements.
You said:

Quote:
And yet the expats building the corsairs have been there for 5 years?
5 years is not a long time. What happens in 10 years? They leave to come *home* again and there is a massive skills gap. If they are going to leave them there and not train up others, it's a floored model, because they won't have anyone to replace them when they do go. Most expats don't last in Vietnam or Asian countries forever; it just doesn't happen.

Quote:
I am intrigued as to how you know these things.
That's called common sense.

It's all a little strange really. They split off the 1000 and the 1160 to Vietnam but leave the 1250 here (apologies if model numbers are wrong) and it goes bad from there. The off-shoring only happened a relatively short time ago. I can't help but think there were other motives. If they are in receivership in Australia, how can the Vietnam operation be safe? Makes you think that they moved because they knew this was coming and possibly there were very few 1250 orders, but then again, isn't it a new facility in OZ?

(I haven't researched where the 950 is built so I didn't include it.)
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Old 23-08-2012, 20:27   #37
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
If they are going to leave them there and not train up others, it's a floored model, because they won't have anyone to replace them when they do go.
Quite the assumption

Heres another one, the expats train up a few local guys who do know how its done and work with them and watch closely for a few boats so eventually they really only need to hold hands in the morning, maybe midday and possibly in the afternoon.
We will call these trained Vietnamese workers "foreman"

The rest of the time the expats might sit in the a/c office ordering supplies, taking orders for boats etc or perhaps they'll catch the hydrofoil down to Vung Tau for some mussels cooked over coals and a few Saigon Greens or Bia Larue

I seriously doubt they will want, nor need to slog it out in 40degree heat in a factory.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:05   #38
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
Here is something to put it all into context.

What is the average length of an Australian company's long term business plan, 10 - 20 years?

A Chinese company in comparison, 200+ years.
Have you ever worked in China?

Firstly, there aren't any 200+ year old Chinese companies. Secondly, based upon my observations after 16 years of working in China the overarching philosophy is "make hay whilst the sun shines". Which, given their history is eminently pragmatic.

Businesses look forward 5-10 years because they have leases and capital investments. But everyone knows that forecasting anything beyond the next 12 months is basically as reliable as sacrificing sheep and looking at their entrails....
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:23   #39
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

I'd love to say something about the worker bashing comments but it wouldn't be nice and this is not a political forum so I'll hold my tongue. It's a shame about Seawind. I hope they do the right thing and good folks don't get hurt by bad decisions. Or corporate greed. Or incompetence.
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Old 23-08-2012, 23:47   #40
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

I find it amazing that there are those who happily accept the remuneration and benefits of our country and society yet expect to pay next to nothing for what they want. And then try and talk up thier attitude as supplying jobs for the third world.
For those that fit this model I feel that the term "living wage" should be researched.
BTW some other western countries have overcome the labour cost "burden" and produce a quality product for clients worldwide.
There is more to a product than the cheapest possible labour price. Rant over, cheers
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Old 24-08-2012, 00:24   #41
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Firstly, there aren't any 200+ year old Chinese companies.
Really now ????
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Old 24-08-2012, 00:44   #42
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Re: Seawind Catamarans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor View Post
For us ignorant americans what exactly is voluntary administration?

It really is a shame. I don't personally care for the design, but they were definitely unique boats...
Voluntary Administration is when the Management of the company elect-choose to stand down and have a representative of the creditors run the business -usually the bank.

It is not the same as voluntary liquidation, which is when the management decide to wind up the company and go bankrupt prior to getting into more debt.

Voluntary Admin does not mean a company will go bust. In numerous (but not all) cases, the companies are saved and continue trading into the future.

Fingers crossed for seawind. Great boat with a great team that looked after its owners.
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Old 24-08-2012, 00:48   #43
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
Really now ????
Well then, give us the full list of 200+ year old Chinese companies. It'll be short.

And whilst you're at it, give us the list of Western companies of that longevity. It'll be short as well.

On matters Seawind: I think that offshoring is really unfortunate, but I imagine if they need to do it it's more of a survival strategy rather than anything else. The real trick is to maintain quality control - some yards have managed it quite well and others not so well....
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Old 24-08-2012, 01:07   #44
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
I find it amazing that there are those who happily accept the remuneration and benefits of our country and society yet expect to pay next to nothing for what they want.
Obviously you are one of these people that never gets out much.
If you did you would see in many parts of the world the same item you buy here costs considerably less there.
Quote:
And then try and talk up thier attitude as supplying jobs for the third world.
Are they not supplying jobs?
Jobs that would not be there otherwise?
Some people are quite grateful for a job, perhaps you have had it easy for to long.
Quote:
For those that fit this model I feel that the term "living wage" should be researched.
You do realise that our standard of living is different to other countries and our standard of living is not the be all and end all?
And do you also realise that I can also buy dinner and a beer for less than $1-00 in Saigon? Locals would pay less.

Quote:
BTW some other western countries have overcome the labour cost "burden" and produce a quality product for clients worldwide.
Really?
Care to provide an example of that?
For every one you provide I could probably show 100 more that have gone to the wall due in part to high labour costs.
Quote:
There is more to a product than the cheapest possible labour price. Rant over, cheers
Of course there is but when the labour cost here is sending companies backwards only a fool would continue pumping money into that broken model and I am speaking from experience here currently helping a family business get the majority of their parts manufactured in Thailand and then fitted to vehicles here.

Its about time some people realise we are competing with the world and not just selling to a handfull of people on $150,000 plus miners wages.
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Old 24-08-2012, 01:50   #45
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Re: Seawind Catamarans

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Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
I think the issue that is being missed here is that the cat market like most other markets is now dominated by large companies enjoying government support, dare I say protection.
It is impossible for companies like Seawind to compete with the large manufacturers who churn out large numbers of boats per year to charter companies whom are also assisted by their government.
Not only do they get better deals from their suppliers they are also able to update their design and introduce more efficient building techniques which make them even more competitive.
Exchange rates are one thing but the Aussie market is so small that local builders are really up against it.
Seawind have done a fantastic job to keep going this long and moving to Asia was probably their only option.
Whilst this is all very sad for the people loosing their jobs, this a worldwide issue effecting all industries.
Let's hope Seawind can survive in some form or other.
Years gone by the Federal Government paid a 'BOUNTY' to builders in Australia to build commercial boats under the USL Code normally but also stretching to ABS and Llyods in an endeavour to expand a vital shipbuilding market.
I don't know of other incentives in Australia in fact i'd call most government action as disincentives..Or do you mean foreign governments?

Cheers Frank
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