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Old 31-08-2018, 21:09   #1
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Seawind alternatives?

I've chartered a Seawind 1160 a few times and may have slightly fallen in love with it. Before I turn into too much of a hopeless mess, I was hoping folks could help me think through some alternatives?

I too dream of someday sailing the world, but for at least the next few years I'm an evening and weekend sailor on the San Francisco Bay. It'd be nice to have a boat that's capable of cruising for a week or two, but I don't expect to be able to do that too often. Most of the time I'll just want to sail for a few hours with 6-8 friends, hopefully more than once a week, and occasionally slip away for a long weekend in reasonable comfort.

The main appeal for me of the 1160 is all the open space with the doors up, and having all my passengers (I mean, crew) getting involved with the sailing. So once I eliminate all the boats with a bulkhead between saloon and cockpit, and the ones with a flybridge or isolated helm station (and anything too big to handle with a crew of non-sailors), what should I consider from the remainder?

Nautitech Open 40: galley up looks like it eats into the saloon space, and the helm stations seem both more exposed to the elements and more separated from the social area, but mostly these boats just seem to be even more expensive. I guess they're more comparable to the 1260?

Maine Cats: full marks for having everybody involved in sailing, but it feels a little spartan to enjoy dinner at anchor?

Any experience comparing those against the 1160? Are there other similar designs that I've overlooked?

Also... do I want an 1160 Lite instead? Given the mission, would outboards be sufficient, and would the ability to hoist them out of the water while in the slip save much on maintenance?

Sorry for the brain dump, and thanks for any wisdom anyone has to share!
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:38   #2
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

There's also the Voyage 440 Cabriolet. A member here had one for sale a year or 2 back. They only made a few I think. They also offered a 450C but I'm not sure how many if any were built.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:11   #3
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

Or the Andaman Cabriolet.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...iolet-3113588/


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Old 01-09-2018, 08:16   #4
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

"I'm an evening and weekend sailor on the San Francisco Bay."


Me too. Are you sailing out of Modern Sailing in Sausalito on their Seawind?
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:30   #5
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

Broadblue Rapier 400 or 550


I have seen 400s with an asking of under 200k euro.
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Old 01-09-2018, 13:03   #6
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

I like the open space but wonder about leaving the boat unattended while at anchor/mooring or a less than honest locale. Some of the mentioned models don't seem to provide much security.
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Old 01-09-2018, 21:45   #7
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

@Sand crab: interesting boat! From the pictures I've seen it looks like it could get pretty crowded around the helm? Do you know how well that setup works?

@smj: thanks! It looks like I should add "cabriolet" to my search terms :P

@Sbonder: I am! I think Modern Sailing's is the only one available in the area? Are you also a member?

@rabbi: the Rapier 550 is BANANAS. It's a good thing I can't afford one! The 400 does look pretty interesting, though... the huge galley looks amazing but seems to consume what would otherwise be seating space?

@fcftampa: even with hard sides and windows, I figure there probably isn't much you can do if someone wants to get in and has a rock... but I agree, fabric sides do seem a little flimsy.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:40   #8
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

Have a look at a Gemini 105MC, 34 foot and similar to a seawind,
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Old 02-09-2018, 04:51   #9
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcftampa View Post
I like the open space but wonder about leaving the boat unattended while at anchor/mooring or a less than honest locale. Some of the mentioned models don't seem to provide much security.
The trifold doors lock and make saloon secure like other boats

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Old 02-09-2018, 07:38   #10
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

Awesome! hadn't seen the door system. Thanks for posting. Not quite sure about having to lower the window to touch the Nav.
Very nice product design overall at Seawind.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:28   #11
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

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Awesome! hadn't seen the door system. Thanks for posting. Not quite sure about having to lower the window to touch the Nav.
Very nice product design overall at Seawind.
The nav thing isn't ideal, but the visibility forward through two panes of glass is pretty poor too, so you're better off dropping that window when you can anyway.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:40   #12
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

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Have a look at a Gemini 105MC, 34 foot and similar to a seawind,


The Gemini is a similar length to the Seawind 1000, but the similarities end there in my opinion.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:02   #13
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

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Originally Posted by miki23 View Post

Any experience comparing those against the 1160? Are there other similar designs that I've overlooked?

Also... do I want an 1160 Lite instead? Given the mission, would outboards be sufficient, and would the ability to hoist them out of the water while in the slip save much on maintenance?

Sorry for the brain dump, and thanks for any wisdom anyone has to share!
I have been on board the Open 40, Seawind 1160, and Maine Cats. Here is my thoughts on comparison

The Open 40 is a beautifully built boat with an emphasis on social spaces at the expense of the sailing experience. The helm is just outside the social space and out in the elements so no fun in rough or wet weather. Sail controls are not convenient. The social seating is excellent but those comfortable seats provide poor seating for a lookout. The person responsible for operating the boat will be continually up and down from the table to touch sail controls, adjust the helm for see what is going on around the boat. Sailing speed and windward performance will be similar to other condomorans, nothing wrong with that, but a clear distinction when comparing to a Seawind or Maine Cat .

The Seawind and Maine Cat are both performance sailing boats designed for people that like to sail. They are of a class to themselves. Weight reduction is an overriding theme on both brands. Narrow hull forms, dagger boards (standard on the Maine Cat, an option on Seawind), and lifting outboards give very satisfying speed and windward performance.

I am a big fan of outboards on these lightweight catamarans. Lifting the outboards delivers a burst of speed by reducing drag in the water. The outboards are economical to maintain and operate. One can find lots of discussion of this on previous threads, suffice to say they work very nicely on these boats.

Comparing the Seawind 1160 to the Maine Cat requires more focus, because these boats have many similarities. Both are excellent brands. The Seawind 1160 Lite is the closest comparison to the Maine Cat 38.

On the Seawind the flow between the saloon and cockpit is very well thought out. The balance of space between salon with the table and cockpit with very inviting seating is excellent. The connection between galley down and salon table is aesthetically pleasing. I like the salon table size but not the square corners. The aft bench seat and barbeque is brilliant.

The Seawind helm is well integrated into the social space, but just outside the overhead cover. Take a jacket if it is raining or cold. Sail controls are right there. I think Seawind might have an option for improving cover overhead of the helm. Fit and finish on the Seawind is good, to my eye superior to the big three brands.

The Maine Cat 38 takes the flow between salon and cockpit to another level by merging salon and cockpit into a single enclosed space surrounded by windows. The helm and sail controls are completely integrated into the social space. Visibility is excellent from the salon, and anyone in the salon can serve as lookout. One can sit at the salon table and mind the helm from the same chair. There is no need to go outside of the protection of the salon when operating the boat, making the boat a joy in cold or wet weather. This same salon enclosure provides excellent sun protection.

With the well though out helm and sail controls the Maine Cat is divine for single handling. But when others are on board anyone operating sailing controls or anchoring is in direct line of sight to the helms-person. This significantly reduces the opportunities for miscommunication.

The Maine Cat 38 salon table is set up for 4, and with some imagination dinning for a crowd can be managed. Another table down in port seats 6. Fit and finish on the Maine Cat is excellent.

And the Maine Cat is fast.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I walked the path comparing these very boats and the Leopard 40 or 45. We now own a Maine Cat 38.
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Old 02-09-2018, 16:27   #14
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

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Originally Posted by miki23 View Post
The nav thing isn't ideal, but the visibility forward through two panes of glass is pretty poor too, so you're better off dropping that window when you can anyway.


We lived aboard an 1160 for 4 years and never put the window in unless anchored or tied to a dock. We normally sailed sitting on the side deck so visibility was excellent!
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Old 02-09-2018, 22:07   #15
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Re: Seawind alternatives?

Some thoughts on the points raised.


Disclaimer: I have a Seawind 1000 with the stern extensions.


First thing is security on almost any boat is non existent. I have yet to see any boat in any marina or anchorage I could not easily get into with a 10 pound sledge hammer; hell I could do it with a 16 ounce hammer. If pressed I could probably put on a pair of good boots and kick my way in.


There have been lots of posts about outboards in wells compared to inboards. The bottom line for me is how much you want to sail as opposed to motor or motor sail. I spent three months in the Mule Keys, Marquesas, and Dry Tortugas; anchored out every night. When I got back to BKH I could not empty a 5 gallon jerry can in my gas tanks. On the other hand a friend made the same trip and used over 40 gallons. There is no question maintaining outboards is simpler, easier, and cheaper than inboards. Sure they use gas but if you do any cruising so will your inflatable. I have two 9.9 Yamahas in the Seawind and a 9.9 Yamaha on my inflatable which makes the spare parts issue when cruising easier.



I have just replaced the bimini on my boat. It has flaps that cover both steering stations; but they roll up so I can see the main sail. Also have a dodger of sorts that I can put outboard of the steering stations to deal with spray if necessary. The thing about weather is that if you have two steering stations one of the other should be out of the weather on most courses on a Seawind; and similar designed cats.


One of the biggest improvements the PO made on my boat was taking out the conventional head and installing a composting head. There has been some mention of Seawind and Maine cats being performance (I am not gonna get in that argument) but will say a composting head is much lighter with no holding tank full of dirty water. No question saving weight on any boat you are considering is an important consideration.


A key factor for me in getting a Seawind was how sea kindly it was sailing. I suspect that had something to do with your attraction to that boat. The only other cat I really have any experience sailing on was a Shuttleworth. While the owner seemed to oversell it's positive aspects I have to say I was impressed with that boat. I also sailed on an FP and was not impressed; but the FP owner loved it and I did like being in the cabin when the AC was on.


My advice is to actually sail on the boats mentioned and see how you like them.
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