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Old 05-11-2009, 04:06   #16
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Old 05-11-2009, 13:20   #17
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Originally Posted by SVKokopelli View Post
Maybe they aren't going bigger because of the current economic climate. With the dollar going the way it is, the 1160's are pushing $500k by the time you get it outfitted and ready to go. Seawind does a great job building quality boats and not everyone has the money for a 45"+ boat of the quality that they build.

As far as the 1160 being just a coastal cruiser...I disagree. It makes a good blue water boat. We have some very good friends who fell in love with the boat, had no experience, and within a year took off across the Pacific. The boat took care of them and they love the boat. Just because a boat is under some arbitrary 45 - 50' size idea, doesn't make it a coastal cruiser. In fact, Seawind is proud of the fact that the boat can go anywhere.
The only reason I think it's strange to have gone to 12.5 metres is because Seawind already have the 1160.

It's only a 0.9 metre increase, but due to the way a lot of marinas operate it could substantially increase costs. ie. all the marinas I've been to have a fee for boats 8-10m, another for 10-12m, and another for 12-14m.

I would have thought, if you're going to go over the 12 metre mark, might as well go more than half a metre over.

And of course if someone can't afford the bigger boat, there's always the 1160.
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Old 05-11-2009, 13:26   #18
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The only reason I think it's strange to have gone to 12.5 metres is because Seawind already have the 1160.

It's only a 0.9 metre increase, but due to the way a lot of marinas operate it could substantially increase costs. ie. all the marinas I've been to have a fee for boats 8-10m, another for 10-12m, and another for 12-14m.

I would have thought, if you're going to go over the 12 metre mark, might as well go more than half a metre over.

And of course if someone can't afford the bigger boat, there's always the 1160.
I totally agree, if not for the 1160 the 1250 would make perfect sense. Maybe they used the 1160 molds with a few modifications so they could stretch the 1160 investment a bit further.
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Old 05-11-2009, 14:26   #19
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The only reason I think it's strange to have gone to 12.5 metres is because Seawind already have the 1160.

It's only a 0.9 metre increase, but due to the way a lot of marinas operate it could substantially increase costs. ie. all the marinas I've been to have a fee for boats 8-10m, another for 10-12m, and another for 12-14m.

I would have thought, if you're going to go over the 12 metre mark, might as well go more than half a metre over.

And of course if someone can't afford the bigger boat, there's always the 1160.
Its a metre in length and 400 mill in hull height and 600 mill in beam and a couple of hundered in bridgdeck height.

Hopefully I will get a photo of an 1160 and a 1250 rafted up, the differrence is noticable.
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Old 05-11-2009, 16:40   #20
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When we see the Seawinds 1000 or 1160 we always wonder at whether the saloon is large enough and whether it is enclosed enough in the 1000.

I guess we should ask to go aboard one and assess this for ourselves.

Any comments?

d
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Old 12-11-2009, 00:30   #21
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DtM,

We have the 1000 [XL- same usable area as the 1000] and the saloon table will easily seat 6-8 around it and 10 if you have the padded icebox at the open end. Equally, once the infills are in place, you have a near king-sized bed.

Looking at photos doesn't tell the whole story, especilly side shots. They make the covered area look quiote small. The "coastal cruising" option of extending the enclosed area with clears at the sides and windowed canvas at the rear makes it reasonably spacious in poor weather.

Also, having been on others 1160's, hey are just great for space.

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Old 17-11-2009, 16:56   #22
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Isn't it obvious?

Am I the only person that sees the resemblance between the "new" 1250 and the 1160 - it's exactly the same! Ever since the marine industry has built boats, the cheapest way to release a "new" model is to extend the current boat you have. Either by adding longer scoups, splitting and extending moulds and adding freeboard. The 1250 is a classic example.

In fact, during the actual launch, a friend of mine noticed the sailmaker actually taking measurements of the rigging before the sails were actually fitted - were the sails and rigging actually included in the design process at all??

We can knock the french boats, but at least they employ modern designs and professional design teams, modern production processes (infusion / injection moulding etc) and they generally launch their boats months ahead of their public launches to ensure a quality product. I know for a fact the Lipari was launched 10 months before it's public marketing launch and they did 1000 sea miles.

The seawinds were a great design 15 years ago, but the industry has moved on and it's a real shame they didn't put some effort into a new design for their latest offering.
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Old 17-11-2009, 19:01   #23
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I agree with you John, it looks like they are using "stretched" versions of the 1160 moulds. The only thing I can think of is they want to replace the 1160 with something a little bigger without investing in the tooling needed for a competetive 44-46 foot boat. This has to be a play for the Australian charter market?

Here's a link to some new photos of the launch from the SeaWind website: http://www.seawindcats.com/index.pl?page=674
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Old 17-11-2009, 21:07   #24
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Am I the only person that sees the resemblance between the "new" 1250 and the 1160 - it's exactly the same! Ever since the marine industry has built boats, the cheapest way to release a "new" model is to extend the current boat you have. Either by adding longer scoups, splitting and extending moulds and adding freeboard. The 1250 is a classic example.

In fact, during the actual launch, a friend of mine noticed the sailmaker actually taking measurements of the rigging before the sails were actually fitted - were the sails and rigging actually included in the design process at all??

We can knock the french boats, but at least they employ modern designs and professional design teams, modern production processes (infusion / injection moulding etc) and they generally launch their boats months ahead of their public launches to ensure a quality product. I know for a fact the Lipari was launched 10 months before it's public marketing launch and they did 1000 sea miles.

The seawinds were a great design 15 years ago, but the industry has moved on and it's a real shame they didn't put some effort into a new design for their latest offering.


I think your right John. Have a look at this 1160 which I believe is in lightship condition, with the waterline already well down. Imagine where that hull distortion panel will end up with the family and three months worth of food, fuel and water on-board. I guess its hard to do design displacement calcs accurately with a chopper gun in one hand and an angle grinder in the other. Nicely finished boat though.
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Old 17-11-2009, 22:31   #25
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I think your right John. Have a look at this 1160 which I believe is in lightship condition, with the waterline already well down. Imagine where that hull distortion panel will end up with the family and three months worth of food, fuel and water on-board. I guess its hard to do design displacement calcs accurately with a chopper gun in one hand and an angle grinder in the other. Nicely finished boat though.
Here's an email I got from the Seawind salesman when I asked about the boats earlier this year. Interesting that over 200 Fountaine's have done circumnavigations but to my knowledge no seawinds have ever been round.....
" Hi John


The sw1160 and the new sw1250 were collectively designed by Richard Ward, our in house naval architect and a senior design group of Shipwrights and yachtsman within the company who have been designing and building catamarans for 27 years. Though the FP might be pretty to look at, they do not feature a fraction of the design innovations, general capacity, sea going ability or general performance of the seawinds. Look at the new Lipari for example, it's advertised as a 41ft boat but in actual fact is only 39ft, it has smaller: motors, fuel capacity, water capacity, range, sails, batteries, etc etc than both the sw1160 and sw1250. The FP are designed as day boats or charter boats for the Med and Caribbean, not to sail oceans. We launch every boat into the Tasman sea for it's shake down cruise!


So to answer your question, Seawinds enjoy more substance to their designs than just good looks. Can we arrange an inspection for you?


Regards
Brent "

I would suggest that Seawind concentrate on improving their own designs rather than slating their competition. When I spoke to the Fountaine guys at the recent Perth Boat Show their reaction to the comments in the email was to show me the facts about their boats and to fully understand what I wanted the boat for, and then spec the options accordingly. In fact they didn't say anything bad about the seawinds at all.....
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Old 18-11-2009, 00:59   #26
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Here's an email I got from the Seawind salesman when I asked about the boats earlier this year. " Hi John


The sw1160 and the new sw1250 were collectively designed by Richard Ward, our in house naval architect and a senior design group of Shipwrights and yachtsman within the company who have been designing and building catamarans for 27 years. l.....

Richard Ward has never claimed to be a naval architect in the past. (to my knowledge).

Jutson designed the 850. Grainger the 37 that became the old SW 1200.

So I wonder who this mysterious naval architect is and why he isn't named?
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Old 18-11-2009, 05:39   #27
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Richard Ward has never claimed to be a naval architect in the past. (to my knowledge) Jutson designed the 850. Grainger the 37 that became the old SW 1200.
So I wonder who this mysterious naval architect is and why he isn't named?
Its a she. You see in reasonable english the presence of the comma after Richard Ward and before the phrase in house naval architect means that the two are not one.


Anyway how are things catty - you well, looking after yourself,
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Old 18-11-2009, 05:50   #28
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Am I the only person that sees the resemblance between the "new" 1250 and the 1160 - it's exactly the same! .
Nope, I think everyone including the seawind people indicate it is heavily based on and drawn from the 1160. I think Seawind see that as a positive, given they have sold 80 or more of the 1160s in a short (for Australia) time period.
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Old 18-11-2009, 05:54   #29
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When I spoke to the Fountaine guys at the recent Perth Boat Show their reaction to the comments in the email was to show me the facts about their boats and to fully understand what I wanted the boat for, and then spec the options accordingly. In fact they didn't say anything bad about the seawinds at all.....
So - did you buy a FP? - funny that you had to go Perth to look at one given the Australian agents are in the sunshine coast? NIce people as well, don't know them all terribly well but have had a bit to do with them. So which FP did you buy? - Good time to buy an imported boat given our dollar is tracking okay. Better time to buy american but good time for euro based as well, or at least better than it has been.

When you say you got the email earlier tis year - how much earlier, I am unaware of any public acknowledgement in the first 6 months of this year of the existence of the 1250?
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Old 18-11-2009, 15:15   #30
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Factor

I attended the 1250 launch at RMYC. There are a lot of things to like about the 1250, especially space in the cockpit and saloon. There is also a bit of the Lightwave features, especially the easy access to GPS charts (outside looking in).

Methinks . . . I am going to put a bumper sticker on Wayward Wind which reads, "When I grow up, I want to be a Lightwave 45."

Realistically, unless I win Lotto, I will stick with my FP Mahe 36. At the end of the day, it is as you say, you buy the boat that suits you, and which you can afford. Like you, I intend to go cruising. I have had my Mahe 36 for a year now. We feel safe and comfortable in her, and find her very easy to handle. I am confident she can take us to those exotic destinations one sees on TV or reads about in magazines.

As such, WW ticks my main boxes. Most other stuff can be added on either by yourself, or you can do your bit for the local economy by spreading your hard earned $$$ to get the experts to do them for you.


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