Seawind 1190 Catamaran

[downunder]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Yes, but......

Unfortunately, the tankage is made up of; 700 litres of water, 200 litres of petrol and 130 litres holding tank.

With 20 hp petrol outboards using approx 3 to 3.5 litres per hour fuel burn the boat has a motoring range of about 30 hours at 6 to 7 kts. This will push you about 200 nautical miles. Not very far in remote areas that regularly suffer "wind deficiency syndrome ", such as most of SE Asia and Australia's Kimberley region. By contrast, the two 40 hp Yanmar diesels in my Lagoon push it 650 NM . ( 400 litre tanks, 4 L/hr @ 6.5 knots ). Range can be extended in both cases by motoring on one engine, and in doing so the difference is amplified. I'm aware that "real cuisers" always sail and therefore buy "real sailing boats", however I live in the "real world". In this world it's not practical to wait weeks or months for wind.

The water tankage of the SW1190 is adequate but not excessive. I don't subscribe to the hard core motto of " keep the tanks empty to go faster, make water when you need to" , as I have been caught in places where the water is too polluted to reliably run the watermaker. Ruin your watermaker membrane by suckling in oil in such a remote location and life starts to get very interesting.

So the SW1190 promises to be fast. It will be fast if, and only if, its kept light. Can it be kept light and still be the "offshore cruising catamaran" that the advertising asserts?

Perhaps. It would depend where you plan to cruise and for how long. I can't see it being very useful for extended cruising to the areas being discussed. Its tankage, particularly fuel, is minimal. Can it carry extra fuel? Can it carry people, food, gear, tools, spares? Wedding cakes?

The boat's specifications state a "displacement" of 6,000kg. I'm assuming that this is maximum design displacement, although this is not clear. With approximately 1000kg being contributed just by filling the tanks alone, the SW1190 would seem very susceptible to being overloaded if it was intended to be used for offshore cruising. A small wedding cake and a very skinny bride?

Tuskie I had misread your comment as thinking the buyer had a special order with 1000L of fuel tankage. I had noted Andrew Grace had almost run out of fuel on a long weekender into Indonesia. from that I agree the range of the vessel could be a real issue in some of our remote areas such as the kimberlies and up in the equatorial zone with light winds and currents.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Andrew Grace

The 6,000 kg is referring to the base boat, no options added, electronics, water, fuel etc. Once you ad all the extra kit you are going to be more like 7,500kg.

Ok, so 6 tonnes is empty. Do you know what the maximum design displacement is? 7,500kg would be very optimistic; my point is that approx 1,000kg would be just filling the tanks.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Ok, so 6 tonnes is empty. Do you know what the maximum design displacement is? 7,500kg would be very optimistic; my point is that approx 1,000kg would be just filling the tanks.

bit of cals: lagoon 400 empty around 9700 kg. MAx displacement 14.7T, ie 50% of empty, therefore one can load 5 T.

Assuming same proportions. 6 t empty, full displacement will likely be around 50% more, which is 9 T. Liquids 1T, left 2T for everything else including crew. It is a bit tight, but for a couple should still be okay.

Sailing lagoon loaded at 15T vs 10.5 T is quite difference. I reallly tried 1T differenetial and difference was definitely noted. So, one should not take performance figures at face value - boat at 6.5T vs 9T will be quite different boat behaviour.

[Factor]

The Lite is quite a bit lighter than the deluxe (diesel engined boat) on the same hulls and the sport is lighter again, so whatever load the original 1160 can carry the sport can do the same, but of course the lighter it is kept the quicker it will be. I had 100 litres of fuel on the 1000XL and carried 40 in two jerries, and never had an issue with fuel, mainly cause I rarely motored.

[Andrew Grace]

We are probable up near 9 tons of stuff onboard now with , generators , dive compressors, over 8 dive tanks etc, the only notiicable performance drop has been at very Low wind , ie when we were test sailing in Vietnam could do wind speed with 6 knots of wind using just main and jib, on the last trip to Tioman we sailed each night the 5 miles from the dive sites to the anchorage, beam reach 10 knots true wind , we were constant on 6 knots boat speed , would have been 8 knots if my bowsprit wasn't broken..,.,

[Andrew Grace]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

bit of cals: lagoon 400 empty around 9700 kg. MAx displacement 14.7T, ie 50% of empty, therefore one can load 5 T.

Assuming same proportions. 6 t empty, full displacement will likely be around 50% more, which is 9 T. Liquids 1T, left 2T for everything else including crew. It is a bit tight, but for a couple should still be okay.

Sailing lagoon loaded at 15T vs 10.5 T is quite difference. I reallly tried 1T differenetial and difference was definitely noted. So, one should not take performance figures at face value - boat at 6.5T vs 9T will be quite different boat behaviour.

here is the latest video , weight is over 9T in the current setup, at one point we were doing 6 knots in 8.5 knots true and 6.5 in 10 knots, would have been a lot faster had we been able to use the code 0 , or asymmetrical in the same wind. While I have not sailed the 1190 you can expect a lot better performance than whats shown in this video and even at the same weight the 1190 has the longer water line and dagger boards, kick up rudders.


https://youtu.be/WlK4TIWuAoQ

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Andrew Grace

here is the latest video , weight is over 9T in the current setup, at one point we were doing 6 knots in 8.5 knots true and 6.5 in 10 knots, would have been a lot faster had we been able to use the code 0 , or asymmetrical in the same wind. While I have not sailed the 1190 you can expect a lot better performance than whats shown in this video and even at the same weight the 1190 has the longer water line and dagger boards, kick up rudders.


https://youtu.be/WlK4TIWuAoQ

nice cruising grounds. Lots of fish,looks like. Asia is synonym with pollution. How is with that where you sail?

Great performant boat. Mine can do 6kn in 10kn beam reaching with standard sails.

[scarlet]

I have a friend who just took possession of a seawind in Vietnam. The quality has really gone down since they moved their production from Australia.

So many things went wrong... sails and rigging failure.. faulty fuel gages caused them to run out of fuel (off the coast of Bali.. ) engine failure... etc.. etc.. etc.. They took possession in Feb... made it to Darwin. (despite failures) spent weeks there trying to have Seawind make warrenty repairs.

I always thought they were a good cat... But After their experience.. I would not consider them.

Just as an aside... hate the helm (having to look through the salon).

anyway... I was very disappointed in their experience.. I hope you have better luck.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by scarlet

I have a friend who just took possession of a seawind in Vietnam. The quality has really gone down since they moved their production from Australia.

So many things went wrong... sails and rigging failure.. faulty fuel gages caused them to run out of fuel (off the coast of Bali.. ) engine failure... etc.. etc.. etc.. They took possession in Feb... made it to Darwin. (despite failures) spent weeks there trying to have Seawind make warrenty repairs.

I always thought they were a good cat... But After their experience.. I would not consider them.

Just as an aside... hate the helm (having to look through the salon).

anyway... I was very disappointed in their experience.. I hope you have better luck.

Name of the boat?

I have never heard of a Seawind - even a 20 year old one having rigging failure. Ever. And even though I am retired I still spend a day or two a month doing follow ups on seawinds, even those out of warranty, often operator training rather than problems, but this is the first time I have ever heard of an owner of a new boat saying they couldn't get warranty service. If the Sails were a problem, what did North Sails say? They made the sails. As for quality change, when I was selling Seawinds I often asked people to compare two 1250s we had side by side (one Viet and one Aus) and tell me which was the better boat (things like stainless welding, furniture door gap tolerance etc), universally the Viet boat was picked as the best one. The same guys who ran the production in Australia run it in Viet, and the worker quality is higher there, and the add ons are still global companies, eg Brookes and Gatehouse instruments, All Yacht Spars (Australia) rig, Japanese engines, North Sails (USA Company) sails, Lewmar deck Gear, Manson Anchors (NZ).

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Factor

Name of the boat?

I have never heard of a Seawind - even a 20 year old one having rigging failure. Ever. And even though I am retired I still spend a day or two a month doing follow ups on seawinds, even those out of warranty, often operator training rather than problems, but this is the first time I have ever heard of an owner of a new boat saying they couldn't get warranty service. If the Sails were a problem, what did North Sails say? They made the sails. As for quality change, when I was selling Seawinds I often asked people to compare two 1250s we had side by side (one Viet and one Aus) and tell me which was the better boat (things like stainless welding, furniture door gap tolerance etc), universally the Viet boat was picked as the best one. The same guys who ran the production in Australia run it in Viet, and the worker quality is higher there, and the add ons are still global companies, eg Brookes and Gatehouse instruments, All Yacht Spars (Australia) rig, Japanese engines, North Sails (USA Company) sails, Lewmar deck Gear, Manson Anchors (NZ).

Factor.. I will send you a private message, as I don't want to violate their privacy by posting their boat name.

The sail rigging failed early in their journey, and ended up motoring quite a distance to get to Australia..

[Andrew Grace]

Would also be interested to know the name of the boat please , I have had a few issues but all being repaired by Seawind ,

One point to consider however is that every new boat will have a few problems and that's why it takes a number of months to test the boat,

Like factor , I have never heard of Seawind not standing by and supporting the product,

Andrew

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by scarlet

Factor.. I will send you a private message, as I don't want to violate their privacy by posting their boat name.

The sail rigging failed early in their journey, and ended up motoring quite a distance to get to Australia..

The rigs are built by Allyachts, a large yacht mast company with a very good reputation.

[smj]

Originally Posted by scarlet

I have a friend who just took possession of a seawind in Vietnam. The quality has really gone down since they moved their production from Australia.

So many things went wrong... sails and rigging failure.. faulty fuel gages caused them to run out of fuel (off the coast of Bali.. ) engine failure... etc.. etc.. etc.. They took possession in Feb... made it to Darwin. (despite failures) spent weeks there trying to have Seawind make warrenty repairs.

I always thought they were a good cat... But After their experience.. I would not consider them.

Just as an aside... hate the helm (having to look through the salon).

anyway... I was very disappointed in their experience.. I hope you have better luck.

Hard for me to believe that someone has a hard time getting warranty work from Seawind. We've owned 2 Seawind 1000's that were both over 20 years old and had multiple owners, yet in my opinion Seawind treated us as if we had just purchased a new boat when we contacted the factory with questions or the need for parts.
It would be interesting to find out what type of failures they had in the equipment, as Seawind manufactures none of the equipment that failed, they just install it.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by smj

Hard for me to believe that someone has a hard time getting warranty work from Seawind. We've owned 2 Seawind 1000's that were both over 20 years old and had multiple owners, yet in my opinion Seawind treated us as if we had just purchased a new boat when we contacted the factory with questions or the need for parts.
It would be interesting to find out what type of failures they had in the equipment, as Seawind manufactures none of the equipment that failed, they just install it.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I'm sorry, my wording was confusing. They did get all of the warranty work done, and Seawind was good about that... but it took quite a bit of time to complete the work. But Seawind did take care of them. Unfortunately, there have been more problems.

What I don't understand is why it is just accepted in the industry that a 1/2 million dollar, brand new boat is "going to have issues, etc".

[tomfl]

Have to agree Seawind has lots of street cred as building solid boats and standing behind them. As factor points out operator error is a possibility in any failure. On the other hand my Seawind is so overbuilt it is hard to understand how a rig failure could occur.

As for sail problems one thing about Seawinds, and probably any cat for that matter, is that when running before the wind it is possible to sheet the main out so far that the sail hits the stays. Definitely not good for the sails or the stays. But that is not a design flaw, rather operator error in my opinion.