The Schionning Waterline 1480 Barrocka. Art and design.

[ldrhawke]

ILLEGAL POST

[Nordic cat]

Cheaper and a much nicer looking lightweight cat than the stuff that usually gets posted and promoted here.

The quality of the finish is also way better than that seen on other fast-cats.

Just my humble opinion.

regards

Alan

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by freetime

2 x 50 hp Honda outboards....hmm...is that good?
what about electricity consumption, no generator, only sunpanels?

825 000Austrailian Dollar!

=500 000 Euro.

The boat's primary propulsion is sail. Remember, boats like this can sail at better than windspeed when it's light. Adding an extra 1/4 of a tonne of diesels would mean you'd be motoring more often.

Using electricity efficiently means solar power can be enough. But you don't get aircon.

$825 Au is pricey, but it is a 350nm/day boat.

[schoonerdog]

This is definitely a boat made purely to sail. Regarding the Honda outboards, they are electric start and each will be putting out 22 amps or so to the battery panels, not a lot, but enough in low light conditions. But there are many items unique to this boat that people really wouldn't appreciate that are genious. Diesels have relatively few people who can repair them and parts are only in major ports, outboards and repairmen are universally available anywhere there is water. When this boat has it's outboards raised it has no metal touching the water, no potential electrolysis or galvanic corrosion, no path to water for lightning strikes. With a boat such as this, you have the ability to carry a complete spare engine, such as a 20 HP engine electric start as a dingy engine. Any issues, replace the failed engine immediately in 15 minutes and repair at your leisure. All engines will fail, but how many can be loaded into a car and driven to a mechanic by your wife and you? How many boats have diesel engines that simply can't be removed at all without cutting away bulkheads? Prop repair can be done at any time without getting wet, no hole in the boat leading to your living quarters for the prop shaft, smoke and fumes always outside, you can hoist your engine and repair it at eye level, you can completely flush it with fresh water with little effort. Think of the headaches you are eliminating, drive shaft misalignments, aluminum outdrive electrolysis, every diesel engine driven boat out there either has their engines in the living quarters where if you get a blown water intake hose you get a complete mess everywhere, or they have the engines in small claustrophobic chambers far aft that create lots of weight in the back, are almost impossible to service while under way or in any type of seas. This has the advantages of both being able to isolate the engine in the rear but also being able to repair it into the security of the cockpit rather than being tossed around inside a small diesel engine compartment. Typically the tanks for such systems would be under the cockpit floor, simple gravity fuel feeds, no lift pumps. The only secret to outboards is don't try to keep them going forever. Put a thousand hours on them and then sell them at a good price and get a new one before the repairs become expensive.

As to solar panels vis a vis a generator, if you were to take a random sample of how many people can manage to keep their generator going on voyages of several months or more it would be a very low percent, but ask about the reliability of solar panels and it would be nearly 100%. No moving parts. No need to worry about gunky waters in most ports of entry fouling the intakes of the generator and burning it up. Also you can reduce your battery bank size with solars versus generators because you are now compensating for nighttime draw versus 24 hour periods between running a generator. Weight reduction again.

This boat was designed by someone who knew exactly what they were doing to create a world cruiser and thought out of the box to get there.

Originally Posted by freetime

2 x 50 hp Honda outboards....hmm...is that good?
what about electricity consumption, no generator, only sunpanels?

825 000Austrailian Dollar!

=500 000 Euro.

[Whimsical]

Schoonerdog
Not quite right with the ouboards being completely out of the water and isolated.
The well is below the wateline so water is still present inside and the OB skeg is used to pull up the blanking panel so there is still a connection. One downside is that the OB's preclude the option of walk through transomes, which I don't favour but many do.

All I can say is thank heaven not all decide to just build the most simple and quick. Given the immense size of a cat by not allowing for some extra work I think many cats look like a cross between a barge and a coffin. Going from a box to something like this will add about 1500 hours for a similar level of finish. I went halfway with a Schionning Wilderness which is flat panel with some strip plank to improve the asthetics. Schionning is not just about looks, its shape is a big part in producing the remarkable performance.

Mike

[freetime]

Can i find simular boats with other brand. What should i look for?

Maybe with inboard, this is the first outboard catamaran in this size i have seen.

Could not find the weight of this catamaran?

[catty]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

Construction by son's of designer

Performance On light days, if the wind is aft of the beam, with full screecher and main she has achieved 9 knots in 6 knots of true breeze. Most other cruising yachts are motoring in these conditions.

When the wind is up a little, she sails dry and flat, effortlessly averaging 200 mile days on passages and making short coastal trips a breeze, with minimal sail handling. In a good breeze she will excite hardened racers, frequently sailing in the 20's. Her best logged 24 hours is a staggering 352 nautical miles of the Tasman sea , sailed on autopilot with hot meals and children sharing the watch.

Gee, one has to question the speeds they are reporting when schioning sister ships have recorded averages a lot lower in recent racing, with large highly skilled crews wringing the boats necks. Cruise Missile ( Waterline 14.8) averaged around 10 for the last Darwin/Ambon race in conditions described as champagne sailing conditions ( strong reaching). Renaisance averaged around 11 for the brisbane gladstone (with fellow competitors capsizing) and both Cruise Missile and Freedom Express were pantsed around the course by smaller mono,s in the recent Dinah Beach cruising clubs wet season series in Darwin.(sailed as seperate divisions with the same start time and course)

To sail 352 miles in 24 hours (average almost 15 knots ) theres got to be a "little" current assistance , like 4 knots, or maybe a nav error or two. Gosh ,the southern ocean 50's+ are seeing these averages in coastal races and there not cruisers or in the open Tasman sea ,but they are occaisionally capsizing trying..

Nice looking boat though, even if a few aspects are a little impracticle.

Regards
A non believer.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Or roll up your sleeves and build it. And no, it won't sail like a pig, either! Not as pretty as Barrocka, but safer to walk on the decks- 65 Foot Sailing Catamaran Design by Tim Dunn

Rolling up my sleeves as we speak-

cat man do
But then it would sail like a pig

My comment was made purely for a boat of 40 ft

Achieving performance AND accom for 12 is a whole lot easier on 65 ft

dave

[fastcat435]

This is one beautiful cat lovely lines all around
My compliments

Gideon

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by catty

Gee, one has to question the speeds they are reporting when schioning sister ships have recorded averages a lot lower in recent racing,........................................... .................................................. ........................
To sail 352 miles in 24 hours (average almost 15 knots ) theres got to be a "little" current assistance , like 4 knots, or maybe a nav error or two. Gosh ,the southern ocean 50's+ are seeing these averages in coastal races and there not cruisers or in the open Tasman sea ,but they are occaisionally capsizing trying..

Nice looking boat though, even if a few aspects are a little impracticle.

Regards
A non believer.

I see no reason to question the owners claims, when the owner admits it's average is 200 plus nm days, and then gave a best ever of 352 miles. He wasn't racing just catching a great wind one day and letting it take him someplace and enjoying it. But, I do question some over zealous claims of speed on this list that you and others don't seem to question.

You question this performance from 49' Schionning cat built 6.7 tonnes light, that even uses outboards that totally retract to reduce drag and weight, is minimulist in design, plus has a beautiful efficient carbon wing mast. But you, and many others, don't seem to question outlandish numbers claimed for a shorter waterline FastCat 435. With all it's ultra light weight materials of construction, it weighs as much empty weight as the 49' Schionning.

The builder claims to have sailed a Fastcat 435, over loaded to 13 tonnes, at average speeds of 15.6 knots for about 24 hours, and even set a world class 446 nm record in one 24 hour period with it.

Of course it is always possible it surfed a tusammi for 446 nm, but I kinda doubt it.

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

I see no reason to question the owners claims, when the owner admits it's average is 200 plus nm days, and then gave a best ever of 352 miles. He wasn't racing just catching a great wind one day and letting it take him someplace and enjoying it. But, I do question some over zealous claims of speed on this list that you and others don't seem to question.

You question this performance from 49' Schionning cat built 6.7 tonnes light, that even uses outboards that totally retract to reduce drag and weight, but you, and many others, don't seem to question outlandish numbers claimed for a shorter waterline FastCat 435. With all it's ultra light weight materials of construction, it weighs as much empty weight as the 49' Schionning.

The builder claims to have sailed a Fastcat 435, over loaded to 13 tonnes, at average speeds of 15.6 knots for about 24 hours, and even set a world class 446 nm record in one 24 hour period with it.

Of course it is always possible it surfed a tusammi for 446 nm, but I kinda doubt it.

I think average speeds of 250 NM should very well be possible and a best 24 hour performance of 352 does not surprise me at all . with the right current and the good winds he should be able to cover well over 400 NM .
It all depends on wind current and the right cat and crew to make speeds like this possible

( p.s. the 446 NM in one day was with a light weight boat and a good crew working constantly to keep all going and current of around 2 knots )
With just my wife and me on board from La Coruna to rest in 25 hour ( 336 NM) is more like it.

Greetings

Gideon

[schoonerdog]

Ahh, I'm looking at it and seeing my old PDQ 36 whose main propulsion was also twin outboards and did ride with them completely out of the water. It was a wonderfully simple catamaran. It also cost 186k in 1998 new, so it was very affordable as well. Our old one has now gone down the caribbean and is in Guatemala.

Originally Posted by Whimsical

Schoonerdog
Not quite right with the ouboards being completely out of the water and isolated.
The well is below the wateline so water is still present inside and the OB skeg is used to pull up the blanking panel so there is still a connection. One downside is that the OB's preclude the option of walk through transomes, which I don't favour but many do.

All I can say is thank heaven not all decide to just build the most simple and quick. Given the immense size of a cat by not allowing for some extra work I think many cats look like a cross between a barge and a coffin. Going from a box to something like this will add about 1500 hours for a similar level of finish. I went halfway with a Schionning Wilderness which is flat panel with some strip plank to improve the asthetics. Schionning is not just about looks, its shape is a big part in producing the remarkable performance.

Mike

[freetime]

I have a problem with this boat...I can´t find anything in this size who should fit me better, she is so nice.
Best so far...just need some extra $.

And it´s a good sailtrip from australia to europe, what is the price on a ship do you think?

[Evan]

I don't like Schionning designs. They have way too many curved deck surfaces that are not safe. I went aboard a Wildcat and nearly slipped off the boat getting on. This boat has similar issues. Look at picture 28 in the gallery of the daggerboard to see the deck edge that just falls away right at the lifelines.

It's frankly stupid. You don't get much aero benefits of a radiused deck edge until the ratio of height of the freeboard to the radius is like 4:1 or better. In other words, you need a 1' radius for a 4' freeboard for it to matter to the bluff side hull.

This particular boat has a lot of things that look good, but aren't that practical. The dining room table looks like it will seat 4 in a pinch, and the settee lacks backrests.

The solar panels are mounted flush on the cabin top where they will be shaded by the mainsail and will heat up without ventilation air behind them.

The design of the bridle attachment to the front cross beam puts all the load on the outboard uni straps.

Having said all that, I have no doubt she's a fast boat.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Evan

I don't like Schionning designs. They have way too many curved deck surfaces that are not safe. I went aboard a Wildcat and nearly slipped off the boat getting on. This boat has similar issues. Look at picture 28 in the gallery of the daggerboard to see the deck edge that just falls away right at the lifelines.

It's frankly stupid. You don't get much aero benefits of a radiused deck edge until the ratio of height of the freeboard to the radius is like 4:1 or better. In other words, you need a 1' radius for a 4' freeboard for it to matter to the bluff side hull.

This particular boat has a lot of things that look good, but aren't that practical. The dining room table looks like it will seat 4 in a pinch, and the settee lacks backrests.

The solar panels are mounted flush on the cabin top where they will be shaded by the mainsail and will heat up without ventilation air behind them.

The design of the bridle attachment to the front cross beam puts all the load on the outboard uni straps.

Having said all that, I have no doubt she's a fast boat.

All good points

Dave