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Old 22-08-2008, 15:48   #1
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Schionning Catamarans

Schionning catamaran.

There are a lot of great models to choose from. How are they to sail? They look fast?

They are manufactured in South Africa on order if you wish.

In what price do you think the larger models are in?
What models are interesting, wilderness?
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Old 22-08-2008, 18:31   #2
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The Oz ones seem great, sail well and are well finished.

Most are custom semi production builds, not production line.

No comment on the SA ones

Dave
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Old 22-08-2008, 19:34   #3
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There is a nearly completed Widerness 1480 for sale with CE certification if your interested. Lorraine Schionning estimates that finished it will be about 850,000 AUD with basic equipment.
The Waterline series are more speed oriented but have a small payload. See the Barrocka thread The Schionning Waterline 1480 Barrocka. Art and design.
The Cosmos is more a cruiser and the Wilderness a bit more so but they still have a beam/ length ratio of around the 12.5:1 and very light, so compared to most charter oriented boats should do well.
A 12.3 Wilderness built in OZ would most likely cost 550,000 and up depending on options.
There are several quality builders around the world if you don't want to self build, all you need is a pile of cash.

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Old 23-08-2008, 04:31   #4
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I visited Custom Marine in Knysna, South Africa last year, and was very impressed with the standard of the work there, and the attention to detail by the 2 young owners.

All excess epoxy was painstakingly removed as they went along, the finish I saw was top quality.

They specialise in building Schionnings, and they had a Wilderness 1620 in build when I was there, i have a few pictures, but the boat was only halfway then. I'm sure they would be willing to send more detailed pictures if you ask them. Speak to James Turner.

http://www.custommarinesa.com/

They were one of the 2 yards I would use, out of the 5 I visited down there. If I was building a Schionning, they would be the ones I would use.

I think there is another yard in SA also specialising in Schionnings. Jeff Schionning now lives in SA most of the year, so that is also helpful if you want some customising done.

I looked in depth at the Schionnings and I like the looks of most of their boats, the reason I decided not to go that route was that they couldnīt offer a standard CE certification back then, they can now do that for some of their designs. Getting CE without the designer being involved is a major effort.

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Old 23-08-2008, 04:49   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freetime View Post
Schionning catamaran.

There are a lot of great models to choose from. How are they to sail? They look fast?

They are manufactured in South Africa on order if you wish.

In what price do you think the larger models are in?
What models are interesting, wilderness?

The price of a custom boat depends on:

The finish you want, so mainly number of man hours.

The equipment you put in.

The materials you use.


Probably in that order also.


The finish chosen can easily add several thousand man hours compared to a more basic boat.

The equipment, engines, rig, instruments and other goodies can also vary from say 100 to 200 k$ for a 45 footer.

Build materials have the least influence on the total price of the boat, whereas build method can vary greatly in the materials and hours used.

So the key factor is probably what you pay for the man hours and how efficient the builder is.


So giving a price indication is difficult, before you know what you want and how you want it built, as well as where you build.

Building a 43-45 ft. Schionning Wilderness in South Africa, using a precut kit from Australia, with a medium finish and kit-out should be around 30% cheaper than say a FP or Lagoon with the same fitout. This is just a ball park figure based on the prices for work I have seen. It might actually be cheaper not to use a kit, but build it without using the ATL panels, just vacuum bag it locally.

Regards

Alan
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Old 23-08-2008, 14:13   #6
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The barrockan is a favorite. But i would like a more livable catamaran, with a generator, washermachine, heater... Are their hulls very narrow like a outremer?

Alan:
Do you mean build from drawings only.
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Old 23-08-2008, 19:29   #7
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There is a comparrison chart of the different designs but it doesn't have the Waterline series, but then it is more a racer so you wouldn't be thinking of that and washing machines.
http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm It is in the section products/services.
Note there is a survey version of the 12.5 cosmos that has slightly fatter hulls and a bigger payload, 2500Kg.
There is a builder over here that specialises in the Waterlines and varies the hull width to accomodate required displacement. Just finishing a full carbon one that has had the hulls narrowed even more.

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Old 24-08-2008, 12:03   #8
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Freetime
There is a comparrison chart of the different designs but it doesn't have the Waterline series, but then it is more a racer so you wouldn't be thinking of that and washing machines.
http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au/www/welcome.cfm It is in the section products/services.
Note there is a survey version of the 12.5 cosmos that has slightly fatter hulls and a bigger payload, 2500Kg.
There is a builder over here that specialises in the Waterlines and varies the hull width to accomodate required displacement. Just finishing a full carbon one that has had the hulls narrowed even more.

Mike
Do you have any www to the builder?
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Old 24-08-2008, 13:38   #9
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Alan:
Do you mean build from drawings only.

Yes, from plans, including files for machining parts for the plug, and for lofting/printing. (Saves time)

I like some of the Lidgard designs also.

Alan
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Old 24-08-2008, 17:45   #10
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Do you have any www to the builder?
Sorry he doesn't have that. He is the guy that actually did the building on many boats and has recently broken out on his own. First class honest tradesman, has helped me with some of the jobs on mine. I'm thinking of giving him some major work to help speed mine up, getiing itchy feet and want to go sailing. He has built many carbon fiber masts and it looks like he will be doing several more in the near future, mine included in conjunction with Rob Denny.

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Old 24-08-2008, 18:00   #11
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I'm thinking of giving him some major work to help speed mine up, getiing itchy feet and want to go sailing.
Mike
Yer how is it coming along I lost the link to where you are posting your achivements. Care to re post?
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Old 24-08-2008, 19:35   #12
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Yer how is it coming along I lost the link to where you are posting your achivements. Care to re post?
Been pretty crook the last few weeks so don't have much more to show and what I have done is fairly low on the visual impact scale.
http://www.hostmybb.com/phpbb/viewto...39&mforum=easy

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Old 24-08-2008, 21:45   #13
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Been pretty crook the last few weeks so don't have much more to show and what I have done is fairly low on the visual impact scale.
http://www.hostmybb.com/phpbb/viewto...39&mforum=easy

Mike
Sorry to hear you've not been well.

You get days where it seems you don't get much done at all, and it seems it gets worse the closer you get to finishing. I've been making backing plates for winches and blocks, I spent most of a day drilling and tapping holes in 15mm plate aluminium. At the end of the day, all I had to show was a few (well, a couple of dozen) holes - not very photogenic.
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Old 25-08-2008, 04:40   #14
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About models from Schionning.

We need one hull with a masterbedroom and shower and one toilet. And even a small desk for a laptop close to the bed.
In the other hull we want one bathroom, washermachine, and 2 double beds...

In the cabin we want a sofa and table for atleast 6 persons(not round shape), navigation table. And the shape of kitchen or place of it i donīt know yet, maybe like the freydis 49, or privilege 445 at port side of the sofa(if it fits).
When I found the right boat model, it is easier to accurately select the layout of the interior.

I want inboardengines (sorry barrockan) and a generator, and some sunpanels. Radar and all things for safe navigation.

We are planning longer blue water passages, atleast the atlantic.

The G-Force 1400 looks nice. I will print all data on the boats...and compare.

I donīt think this will be a very heavy boat? 2-4persons most of the time.

Wish models should i look extra at(sorry for my english).

What is a bi-rig? 2?
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Old 25-08-2008, 07:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freetime View Post
About models from Schionning.

We need one hull with a masterbedroom and shower and one toilet. And even a small desk for a laptop close to the bed.
In the other hull we want one bathroom, washermachine, and 2 double beds...

In the cabin we want a sofa and table for atleast 6 persons(not round shape), navigation table. And the shape of kitchen or place of it i donīt know yet, maybe like the freydis 49, or privilege 445 at port side of the sofa(if it fits).
When I found the right boat model, it is easier to accurately select the layout of the interior.

I want inboardengines (sorry barrockan) and a generator, and some sunpanels. Radar and all things for safe navigation.

We are planning longer blue water passages, atleast the atlantic.

The G-Force 1400 looks nice. I will print all data on the boats...and compare.

I donīt think this will be a very heavy boat? 2-4persons most of the time.

Wish models should i look extra at(sorry for my english).

What is a bi-rig? 2?
Freetime
I think you need to decide on the balance between sailing ability and accomodation space before you go any further as from what I see your wants in a boat of under 45 feet they won't both be achievable. The 12.3 Wilderness has a payload of 1.8 ton and I am trying to shave off at least 400Kg from the build so I end up with over 2 ton, achievable but a lot of effort at all points of the build. Have you downloaded the layout for this, what do you think. Has 2 queens and a double with a big bathroom and ensuite in one cabin. I have changed the layout and will be using the galley as a compuetr/helm/nav staion with a galley down. I will use part of the starboard hull to extend the main cain to provide more lockers and a small desk. Moving the diesels aft allows the bathroom to move aft and frees up one hull for the galley. The bathroom will have space for a washer. Pretty close to what you want I think.

If you want 2 doubles, bathroom and space for a washing machine in one hull you will need to go for something with very fat hulls in under 50 feet.

Putting everything up on the bridgedeck will dictate a very long bridgedeck or small space for each. Niether a good option.

I think the G Force is the replacement for the waterline and hence not a load carrier

The Bi-Rig is a dual cat rig with one freestanding carbon fiber mast in each hull. There is no head sails at all. With 110 square meters on 6.5 ton it has pretty high numbers so light air sailing should be good. IMHO a great option for a low stress low effort cruising rig. Schionning did a 8 meter prototype called the Radical Bay. There are a couple up in Malaysia that race and do quite well, see the Schionning site.

Mike
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