Scarlet's Annapolis Review

[BandB]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Until you have tried something, how can you possibly know what you have to have?

A reason we chartered a lot prior to purchasing and even chartered identical boats to what we bought. It was of tremendous help.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by OneEye

I have heard that Gemini might be bringing back the Manta 42. Anyone else hear this?

Where did you hear this? There is another poster here and on the other forum we can't mention who says he has the rights to the name. There were actually 2 different people who claimed this but the other one was full of it. The legit guy actually worked at Manta and posted about a new Manta 44 that was in the design stage I believe.

Edit: It's 46' and I think the new Gems are built by Hunter. There's nothing on either site about this.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nt-125361.html

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by downunder

Just those alone means you will really need a genset and you really need a vessel around 44-45 ft for that. Most 40ft cats would struggle with the weight. A genset will also run a scuba compressor if you are a diver.

Even with a genset you should fit as much solar as possible and there are plenty beign set up with over 1KW of solar.

I forgot about the scuba equipment!

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

We ended up selling 16 water makers at the show (a new Annapolis Record)

Just curious... what is the price range on a watermaker? if you have to send it to me privately.. that's ok..

[Rohan]

Wow!!! 5 pages of comments and NOT ONE mention of the Dragonfly or Neel 45 trimarans at the show. These two boats alone made the trip worth it for me.

Apparently, Dragonfly does all the European boat shows but rarely come to the USA. The only Dragonfly there was the 32, which is very small for long term living aboard, but it was probably the fastest sailboat at the show. I was surprised that the aft cabin was quite a bit larger than I expected.

Although the Neel 45 looks weird, and has a small galley and heads for a boat it's size, it is still a masterpiece of design. The amount of storage space is unbelievable, the view from the cabins is amazing, and it has plenty of potential for further modifications and custom upgrades. And forget seasickness, it sat in the water as steady as a rock.

My wife loved the Lagoon 39, and while I like the design, I don't have confidence of its sailing ability. I wish they had the Lagoon 400S2 on hand.

Leopard: only one boat at the show? Really?

Gunboat: The line to get aboard went all the way down the dock. Forget it.

Off topic for this forum: Did anyone see the Oyster 625?? It's like a floating Taj Mahal! Unfortunately the price tag is above 3 million....

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Rohan

Leopard: only one boat at the show? Really?

They were scheduled to show 3, but they sold the other 2...

[Sand crab]

Leopard claims to be the largest seller of cats in North America so maybe it's true. Can't even save the boats for the shows.

[truckman]

The best cat at the show hands down was the Catana 52 in the broker's bay. Just a beautiful boat over 10 years old, but in way better condition then almost every single cat at the show. Cheaper than the outie, or the Antares and loaded with equipment. Delightful owner aboard as well giving tours.


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[Southern Star]

Scarlet, glad to hear you liked the Antares - as you say, great quality and although in many respects a rather old-fashioned design, it has design attributes/features that work very well for the liveaboard/long range cruiser. For rexample, IMO the full windshield with wipers on the 44 would prove to be more than just a minor detail for the inevitable times that you are sailing in inclement weather. So too the large number of well-placed overhead hatches (more on that later).

If you feel you need aircon and a washer and dryer you will then be stuck using your genset much of the time. An alternative, when not connected to shore power, would be to use only the washer and then hang your clothes to air dry. This not only cuts back significantly on power consumption, but reduces the amount of moisture/humidity that can accumulate in the interior. You will also find that there are, in many anchorages in the Caribbean, trustworthy people who will do your laundry for you at a very reasonable price. Rather than paying for diesel to run your generator, put some money back into the local economy. When underway, there are also hand turn washers like the Wonderwash that will clean a few pounds of light clothing in a few minutes. And light clothing/bathing suits will be the order of the day!

Regular showers? I agree, they are mandatory for both comfort and hygiene. Yes, you will want a watermaker, but you won't need electricity to heat the water: the standard water heater functions off 120V when on shore power, or a heat exchanger off the diesels when you are not. If you run a diesel for a short bit to help top up the charge on your batteries, you will also have hot water.

Another option, which we have on our boat, is an on-demand propane water heater. Ours is mounted on a bulkhead in the galley and it also provides unlimited (to the extent of your fresh water supply) hot water to one of the heads (the one with bathtub shower) as well as the galley sink.

The cost of diesel in most cruising areas is incredibly high and, apart from maintenance for the aircon system and the generator (and the noise/vibration thereform), you will find the cost of running the genset on an almost full-time basis to be pretty significant. This is to say nothing, of course, of the inconvenience of having to fill up the tanks (in some areas, hoping that the diesel is reasonably clean) on a more frequent basis.

Make sure you get a cat with an adequate number of overhead and forward facing hatches ( some don't). Look at the Antares to see what I mean. Proper ventilation aided by some small 12V fans will make the interior quite comfortable in most conditions - especially under anchor, where the bows are typically facing into the breeze. I also suspect that you will find yourself getting acclimatized to the heat and humidity over time - unless, of course, you have the air running, in which case you are bound to feel uncomfortable virtually every time you leave the confines of the interior of your boat. Try a bareboat charter on a cat similar to one that you are considering - most do not have aircon and, while you will still not be fully acclimatized to the heat, I suspect that you may find that you really don't need central air.

I guess another way of looking at it is this: if you don't like hot weather, why cruise in the tropics/sub tropics? Yes, you can have a couple of portable air con units for when you are plugged into shore power (or for those oppressively still, hot and humid nights under anchor when fans/hatches don't cut it) - but really, closing up your boat and putting on the air almost every day/night will just remove you from the sounds and the wonderful sultry, aromatic (and yes, romantic) atmosphere that permeates so many anchorages in the Caribbean.

Brad

[Factor]

Originally Posted by scarlet

cwjohm... I'm hoping Factor pops in here. He was on the panel at the forum, and this topic was discussed. My husband even asked a follow up question to make sure that he understood correctly. So.. Factor.. if you are playing along.. could you address this issue?

Of Course

But give a me few days to get home to Australia, just doing a few business trips in France at the moment.

[cattar]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I think the new Gems are built by Hunter.

Since September, new Geminis are built by Catalina.
Gemini had partnered with Hunter in 2010, and Hunter built those cats the past few years.

[OneEye]

I heard the rumor about Gemini/Manta on the Gemini User Forum.

As for the Neel Tri, it was super cool, but it was too small for me (I'm a big guy) and it is pretty expensive.


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[scarlet]

OneEye..I agree. And.. I know I will probably get flamed for this.. but, I just don't "GET" Trimarans. I really don't get them. You have this boat with this really wide beam.. 3 hulls... and yet a living space smaller than a monohull. and I'm sure they sail really flat... but.. so do Cats.. and you actually have room for more than a couple people on them.. they are really pretty, and they look like a "kingon ship".. but other than that.. I just don't "get" them.

Sorry Tri people..

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by OneEye

As for the Neel Tri, it was super cool, but it was too small for me (I'm a big guy) and it is pretty expensive.

I'm curious. Too small in what respect? I'm 6'2", not small, and there was plenty of headroom for me, plenty of space to walk around, plenty of room to sit in the salon. The thing is 28 feet wide! The heads are a little small, I will grant you that.

Originally Posted by scarlet

OneEye..I agree. And.. I know I will probably get flamed for this.. but, I just don't "GET" Trimarans. I really don't get them. You have this boat with this really wide beam.. 3 hulls... and yet a living space smaller than a monohull. and I'm sure they sail really flat... but.. so do Cats.. and you actually have room for more than a couple people on them.. they are really pretty, and they look like a "kingon ship".. but other than that.. I just don't "get" them.

Depends on what tri you are talking about. Trimarans like Corsair and Dragonfly put the living space in the central hull, which greatly limits living space because the hull needs to be narrow at the waterline to go through the water with speed. The Neel does it differently - it puts the living space entirely above the hulls, which creates an enormous living space as well as allowing huge storage spaces in the hulls, enough for any amount of luggage you would ever need.

So to answer your question, I'll give you a textbook answer. Trimarans generally sail faster and smoother than catamarans, and are also less weight sensitive, since they carry the bulk of their weight in the center, like a monohull. Generally, you can also beach trimarans without too much trouble.

I know the Dragonflys can go up past 23 knots - you would be hard pressed to do that on any Lagoon, Antares, FP, or Leopard.

[BigBeakie]

Scarlet,

To "get" tri's, you need to get yourself invited onboard one for a days sailing in good winds. It will take you a couple of days to come down off the high

The sailing experience on a well balanced tri, even a cruising tri, never mind a more performance focused design, will blow you away. And we started our boat design search looking at larger tri's ie about 35 foot.

However, the Achilles heel of tri's for cruising, particularly bluewater extended liveaboard cruising, is as you have instinctively picked, is space and load capacity. If you overload them they squat down too much and the performance dies, and indeed that compromises their safety.

So we built a spreadsheet of weights of everything to see if our chosen Farrier design would work as a cruiser...and the answer was no.

So then back to the drawing board for which cat would be the best choice for our plans and intended cruising itinerary, duration and liveaboardability.

BTW, I thought Southern Star's post was excellent I have tried during our boat search, to pay attention to the feedback from those who have "been there done that" as they say here in Oz. Pay attention to the essentials of a good, safe, suitable boat first and once you have ALL the essentials covered, THEN you can work your way through second order priorities like hotel needs, colour of the woodwork etc.

You know what they say about judging a book by it's cover?