Originally Posted by cwjohm
Andrew (factor) and I are old mates. Over the years I have looked at Seawinds and Outremers.
Firstly, Andrew does not believe in air-con on a boat, which is fair enough, but when I am in 40C and 100% humidity I want air con. This alone means I want a generator
Secondly, those faster boats like Seawind
are very affected by weight so adding a washing
machine is a no-no. IMHO you cannot cruise
without a washing
machine. Guess what - you need a generator
Thirdly, you should ask Andrew how much Outremer
charge for Lithium Ion fitout. I know because I have looked at it but it would not be right for me to put those figures out there.
So if you want air con or a w/m you need a generator. If you have a generator then it cost $2 per hour to charge your batteries.
This is where the arguments come in. I have 480W of flexibles and 240W of floating and my Helia looks streamlined. No fugly solar
array attached. Yes I have to run my generator occasionally. Others would rather spend $10-20K to save a few hours on the genny. It is all personal preference.
Over to you Andrew.
was a great experience for me. I always wanted to se it and so I did this year. Many thoughts from it. Firstly the market in the US is different to OZ, significantly. Dare I say it but a greater proportion of the punters are educated buyers in Australia
, they know and understand the differences and the underlying physics and philosophy of Multihull
There were some great boats, and also some really strange implementations of the multihull
approach. Certainly convenience and comfort are valued, by and large much more highly in the US market. I really liked the Neel, though wouldn't own one, parking space and absolutely no visibility from the cockpit
were the deal breakers there. The Balance (Montebello revisited was a reasonable go at Roger Hills design though the reverse bows looked to be, as they are, an afterthought. The Dragonfly is a great boat, beautifully built and finished and sails
well. The Gunboats were impressive but wouldn't tempt me away from an Outremer if I had the money
. The Maverick was interesting and had some great deign touches but (and this is personal) had been hit with the ugly stick a bit. The usual array of Lagoons and FPs had by far the most visitors. The Isara was everything that isn't right, in my humble opinion for Multis, too heavy and too complex, great apartment, but simply won't sail well if the laws of physics haven't changed. There were a number of
I think its worth explaining that I don't value performance above all else, but if a sailing boat won't sail well then you may as well save the money
and inconvenience of a stick and sails
, and buy a power cat instead. I have cruised extensively on my boat and have 350 hours on the engines after 5 years. And my boat is NOT a high performance boat, but it sails reasonably well and sails when others are motoring. The whole point of a sailing boat for me is to sail. That also needs efficient systems, for example I never turn my fridge and freezer
off and don't have shore power
, it runs well on the solar
The seminar was great, I enjoyed meeting Gregor Tarjan for the first time and was struck by how similar our views were. The folk there were keen and interested and seemed to enjoy the morning. Sadly I had to leave early as I had to drive back to Toronto in Canada
, to catch a plane to France
to go and see the Outremer 45 in the water
. The fundamental message I tried to impart was to go sooner rather than later, with what you can afford rather than what you think you want.
Onto some of your comments:
It isn't that I don't believe that you don't need air con on a boat, its just I have never experienced that need at anchor
. The only time I have really experienced the need is at a marina, where there is usually 240 available. Of course I am usually on boats with great ventilation so that helps. So no gen set needed. Same for washing machine, if you absolutely need one at anchor
then I think we are approaching cruising from vastly different perspectives. Washing machines are on many seawinds (1250s). Again unless you want to do washing at Middle Percy Island no gen set needed. Gen sets are not the norm with most multihull cruisers. If you have a diesel engine
boat, you can great power output from innovative charging
systems so the hour of engine
running when anchoring
and departing will put back limps of power.
It really comes down to what you NEED to go cruising. Of course everyone's need is different, for me the experience of being out there is important less so is the desire to have luxury. I am often reminded that Cruising is defined as "Boat Maintenance
in new and interesting places", and the more stuff you have the more maintenance
Weight is important on Multihulls, you simply cannot have a fat hulled boat that carries huge loads and performs well. If the beam of the hull
as a percentage of the length of a hull
is not fine enough the boat will not sail well. As all the speakers said, don't buy anything more than you need, if you need air con at an anchorage, fine then you need to buy it, but understand that costs you money and it costs you performance.
I am not sure where
Others would rather spend $10-20K to save a few hours on the genny
comes from? A 1000 watt solar system on a seawind 1160
wont cost anything like that - less than 5K including MPPT
controller, fully fitted. And thats less - way less - than a Fischer Panda
But each to his/her own. Once you drop anchor in a nice little spot - say Lady Musgrave you see lots of people doing on boats with less luxury and convenience than I have on the Seawind
XL, and some with more. At the end of the day, getting out and doing it is the most important thing for me. So I do it on a boat I can afford and one that is very easy to live with and sails nicely. Certainly not the fastest out there, even on multis waterline length counts so I start from a little disadvantage ona 10.85 metre boat. But good sails and a light boat balance that out somewhat.
We have been away for 9 weeks without visiting a marina, and live pretty well, we dehydrate a lot of food
before we go, we get meat laser cut and vacuum bagged, we have fun and don't go without much. Its all good.
just remember Newick's law - Price
Performance Comfort - pick any two you like.