Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-08-2008, 06:30   #166
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435


It makes the boat a lot heavier, when it should have been a lot lighter (battery weight).
It makes the electric system very complex.
battery capacity constrains the power output and causes significant problem when motoring for any distance.

Hallo Talbot , you are right . electric propulsion ads weight but not much since you can take the amount of diesel normally carried to less than half of for the FastCat from 600 liters for an ocean crossing to 200 liters saving 320 kilo,s there.

To my simple mind, a hybrid system is much more simple and offers significant weight savings.

A pure hybrid system is simpler but use almost as much diesel as a pure diesel system and our reasoning is that we want to save on fuel

By hybrid, I mean the installation of a purpose designed generator, that is used for engine drive. It is then available for battery charge and running AC. A single generator would be a simple installation, and the battery weight savings would be substantial. You also avoid all that speed reduction by being able to use folding props.

To minimize speed reduction when not charging battery's we lift the propulsion out of the water

As another idea for weight saving, has anybody investigated the use of titanium anchor chain - A very quick look suggests that it is less susceptible to corrosion, and strength to weight is much superior, hence possibility of reducing the weight - of course that would have a knock on effect of reducing the effectiveness of the anchor system.

Titanium is very brittle and weight for a chain is needed to keep the anchor in place
we have special chain produced for us in 8 mm made out of Duplex Stainless steel with a weight of 1.4 kilo per meter and a breaking strength of 6400 kilo or 14400 LBS
__________________

__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 06:32   #167
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
Has anybody used LEADED ROPE instead of using chain or use it and reduce the amount of chain carried to lose weight?
Standard we deliver our cats with 25 meter of chain followed by 50 meters of weighted rope .
That is a good combination of less weight with enough strength to hold the boat.
We do however recommend a longer chain if anchoring in deeper water often happens and than 100 meters of chain is supplied with the 50 meters of weighted line to follow

Greetings

Gideon
__________________

__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 08:27   #168
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fremantle Australia
Boat: Schioning 12.3 "Wilderness" Bi-Rig under construction
Posts: 558
Send a message via Skype™ to Whimsical
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
we have special chain produced for us in 8 mm made out of Duplex Stainless steel with a weight of 1.4 kilo per meter and a breaking strength of 6400 kilo or 14400 LBS
I like the sound of that, what is the expected corrosion properties of it in an anchoring situation, and at what cost.
The problem with any Euro products is that the costs are realy getting out of hand. Although I have many times seen the same products through an American or Aussy distributor far below that of a European seller. I suppose the price depends on what the market is willing to pay.

Mike
__________________
Whimsical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 08:46   #169
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimsical View Post
I like the sound of that, what is the expected corrosion properties of it in an anchoring situation, and at what cost.
The problem with any Euro products is that the costs are realy getting out of hand. Although I have many times seen the same products through an American or Aussy distributor far below that of a European seller. I suppose the price depends on what the market is willing to pay.

Mike
Hallo Mike we pay Euro 35 per meter it is 8 mm DIN 766 Duplex extremely low corrosion
F53 / S32750 / 1.4410 Super Duplex Stainless Steel with a minimum order of 1000 meters
I do not know how this compares with Normal stainless steel chain in 316 price wise.

Greetings

Gideon
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 08:55   #170
Registered User
 
Spammy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Catalina 42: Quetzalcoatl
Posts: 114
Whimsical,

One of the current problems in "overpricing" European boats is the strength of the Euro in international currency exchange. We live in the USA, where the Dollar is approximately $1.50 per Euro. It has been said that currently the Euro is overvalued vs the Dollar by about 30%. This has a dramatic impact on Dollar purchase costs of a European boat.

Rocky
__________________
Spammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 09:12   #171
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fremantle Australia
Boat: Schioning 12.3 "Wilderness" Bi-Rig under construction
Posts: 558
Send a message via Skype™ to Whimsical
I do understand why the Euro prices are high, in AUD it is nearer 2 to the Euro, but it is not just exchange rate. I wonder how long it will last before there is a serious impact.
Gideon, very nice but $3500 AUD for 50 meters is way out of my league to save a few kg's

Mike
__________________
Whimsical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 09:19   #172
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimsical View Post
I do understand why the Euro prices are high, in AUD it is nearer 2 to the Euro, but it is not just exchange rate. I wonder how long it will last before there is a serious impact.
Gideon, very nice but $3500 AUD for 50 meters is way out of my league to save a few kg's

Mike
Hallo Mike , what is the price for normal stainless 8 mm chain ?

Greetings
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 09:21   #173
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spammy View Post
Whimsical,

One of the current problems in "overpricing" European boats is the strength of the Euro in international currency exchange. We live in the USA, where the Dollar is approximately $1.50 per Euro. It has been said that currently the Euro is overvalued vs the Dollar by about 30%. This has a dramatic impact on Dollar purchase costs of a European boat.

Rocky
The nice thing is that the Euro has dropped almost 10 % over the last 2 weeks compared with the Dollar and it will go on for some time since economic recession has also hit Europe

Gideon
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 09:56   #174
...

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Standard we deliver our cats with 25 meter of chain followed by 50 meters of weighted rope .
That is a good combination of less weight with enough strength to hold the boat.
We do however recommend a longer chain if anchoring in deeper water often happens and than 100 meters of chain is supplied with the 50 meters of weighted line to follow

Greetings

Gideon
Thanks Gideon, I thought if any body would know or use it, it would be you.
Cheers
Ian
__________________
ireaney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 09:58   #175
Registered User
 
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 712
weighted rope?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Standard we deliver our cats with 25 meter of chain followed by 50 meters of weighted rope .
That is a good combination of less weight with enough strength to hold the boat.
We do however recommend a longer chain if anchoring in deeper water often happens and than 100 meters of chain is supplied with the 50 meters of weighted line to follow

Greetings

Gideon
Gideon, hello, can you tell me what are you using for weighted rope?

Thnx Jack
__________________
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 10:09   #176
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmolan View Post
Gideon, hello, can you tell me what are you using for weighted rope?

Thnx Jack
Hallo Jack we use the 50 meters of 16 mm weighted rope from Liros in Germany but there are many suppliers for this type of weighted rope .

Greetings

Gideon
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 12:29   #177
Senior Cruiser
 
sandy daugherty's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: near Annapolis
Boat: PDQ 36 & Atlantic 42
Posts: 1,178
A cursory search for Titanium Anchor chain got me nowhere. Is it actually on the market?
__________________
sandy daugherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 13:47   #178
Marine Service Provider
 
fastcat435's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Amstelveen Netherlands
Boat: FastCat 445 Green Motion
Posts: 1,649
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to fastcat435
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
A cursory search for Titanium Anchor chain got me nowhere. Is it actually on the market?
Not as far as I know since the properties of Titanium are not the best for an anchor chain.
The same for aluminium , the advantage of Titanium is its weight and non corrosive character.
The down side is the fact that titanium is brittle and it could break easy if a shock occurs.
But then again there are many different types of titanium alloy,s

Greetings
Gideon
__________________
fastcat435 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2008, 19:49   #179
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brisbane
Boat: Lightwave 45 under construction .Previous self built Roberts 36
Posts: 186
I have a titanium road bike which is just superb at absorbing road shock, Litespeed Territory Select (it is very corrosian resistant so Ti foldups are on the cruisng list) but Fastcat is right, Titanium alloys can work harden, and apart from the expense this would be why it is not suitable for an anchor chain. The Litespeed site although devoted to bicycles has some interesting info on Ti alloys GC
__________________
Glenn C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2008, 12:20   #180
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina
Boat: 44 footer
Posts: 923
Great discussion so far...

Hey, Have any of you guys used stainless tubing or titanium shafting for rudder posts?

I'm curious as when I rebuild my rudder I'll be extending its length. (At the moment its a L shaped piece of bronze... lower half has its own mini-shaft bolted to it.)
__________________

__________________
Zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
weight of a FastCat 455 fastcat435 Commercial Posts 2 08-08-2009 20:04
Saving Cecilia B Kai Nui The Sailor's Confessional 19 29-04-2008 07:37
Daylight Saving Time 2007 FrankZ Marine Electronics 18 19-02-2007 16:51
Saving for Sailing Jim H General Sailing Forum 16 31-10-2005 13:38
Daylight Saving Time GordMay General Sailing Forum 1 19-08-2005 22:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.