Sailing Visitors Blown Away By Help

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

With the recently published pictures of catamarans sitting very low in the water it appears as though the days of not needing a life raft on a catamaran
are over.

Its interesting / sad that all the lessons learned from such catastophic events ,that are formalised to a degree in the yacht racing regulations are not taken into account when buying/owning a modern catamaran.

As cruisers we are happy to follow the racers and add square top mains, full length tracks, etc etc.in an attempt to improve performance, yet when it comes to the question of safety ,corners are cut.

For instance, how many have the facility to easily accomplish this..........

3.20.2 Multihulls shall have provision to pump out all watertight
compartments except those filled with impermeable
buoyancy.

or........

3.05.1 Adequate watertight bulkheads and compartments (which
may include permanently installed flotation material) in
each hull shall be provided to ensure that a multihull is
effectively unsinkable and capable of floating in a stable
position with at least half the length of one hull flooded.

From http://www.sailing.org.au/wp-content...-Keelboats.pdf

Anyone want to start a thread on marina mooring cleats, how to tie catamarans to said cleat, or "Character assessments of people who leave furled headsail aloft when not in attendance

"??

Once again, you ignore the facts. When were the days of not needing a liferaft on a catamaran?

Life rafts are recommended safety equipment for catamarans that cruise, especially in the event of fire. The model in question, has a dedicated compartment for a liferaft. Its not an issue in this particular situation, but as someone who has trained many others in the use of liferafts, I would heartily recommend staying aboard the flooded "Felix" in rather than abandoning it for a liferaft. Sorry mate, I know it's a disappointment, it didn't sink.

Regarding compliance with racing regulations, you will find that a standard Lagoon 400 (such as Felix) would meet 3.20.2. as bilge pumps are connected to all compartments. It is obvious in this case that the severe damage allowed water ingress that overwhelmed the bilge pumps.

With regard to 3.05.1, I have been told anecdotally that the hull damage was such that more than half of the starboard hull was flooded.

Thanks to the Mods for editing this thread. I've also been told of the great camaraderie and teamwork of the cruisers who assisted Felix after the severe storm at Bundaberg. This vessel had only recently cleared in to Australia following a passage from New Caledonia. The crew no doubt were relaxing after tying up "safe and sound" in a marina.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Because you seem to focus your vendetta on catamarans.

Great...... that maybe means that he maybe really likes trimarans maybe like maybe ???

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

Great...... that maybe means that he maybe really likes trimarans maybe like maybe ???

Or he’s got a dodge caravan that he’s named “seaslug”

[Factor]

Originally Posted by StuM

We?

Yes we. The royal we, sluggo seems to think that he can speak for all people who own, sail, build , multis, even though he is none of the above

[billknny]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Etap is the only company I know that built boats using flotation foam in their hulls. The watertight bulkheads of the Amel and others will keep the boat from sinking if you hole the ends, but not if the main cabin gets holed.

Matt

Actually, that's not true about an Amel. It most certainly will float with the main cabin holed if you close the water tight doors. Granted, it will not float very high, but enough you would still have to step down into your liferaft.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by billknny

Actually, that's not true about an Amel. It most certainly will float with the main cabin holed if you close the water tight doors. Granted, it will not float very high, but enough you would still have to step down into your liferaft.

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any way that those gasketed doors with one brace is going to be watertight with pressure coming from the main cabin. Pressed against the seals and pushing closed on the bulkhead, they may remain tight if the v-berth or aft cabin is holed, but main cabin flooding is pushing them open and will not work without major support. It doesn't mean it's not a great safety feature.

Look at any real watertight doors and count how many latches are used to keep it sealed.... top, bottom, and each corner.

Matt

[Redreuben]

Multihullers have been singing the unsinkable song for decades, now that the production apartment cats are showing flaws I think the questioning is valid.
For my money I think thicker cores particularly on the deck where it also insulated from the sun is a good call. Trouble is cost, quality foam is expensive but as a % if the build it is small. Building the flotation into the structure was and still is foams big advantage. Solid core below the waterline is false economy, a bit more glass is the answer. I’m not a fan of balsa.

[PhiSig1071]

Sluggo, what do you hope to accomplish with these constant threads attacking catamarans?


Your threads are making me want to leave CF completely, I'm tired of your incessant droning ********.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

Sluggo, what do you hope to accomplish with these constant threads attacking catamarans?


Your threads are making me want to leave CF completely, I'm tired of your incessant droning ********.

so, put him on your ignore list and enjoy the rest of CF... that's what the ignore function is for!

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Felix is at least still floating. She was beached and at low tide, the hole was patched and the hull pumped out, then refloated. The forward watertight bulkheads kept her afloat. The starboard hull had an 18-24 inch gash just below the waterline midships caused by powering around the end of the dock that boat was pushed down on. The starboard hull flooded relatively quickly. Then water started to cross to the port hull through the cavity that has the steering gear.
It was very windy and visibility was near zero during the storm. We had 50-55kts sustained gusting to 67kts just down the dock. So what exactly happened is up to the insurance companies to work out. The other cat that came loose from the dock headsail unfurled after the bowsprit was broken on contact with the boat ahead of it.

Thank you for this informative response, Paul L. Do you happen to know what failed? dock cleats? lines? pull the cleats and backing plates out of the hull?

Thanks, again.

Ann

PS. I want to say it is relatively rare to have that much wind in a thunderstorm in Qld, and few people would be prepared for storm strength winds. It is entirely possible that the dangerous thunderstorm warning was made while the people were elsewhere than listening to their VHF, like doing laundry or having a snack, or gone into town, provisioning...and that's a longish bus ride.

A.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Is this level of Flotation acceptable in a modern cruising catamaran.



See...https://www.news-mail.com.au/news/sa...-help/3266181/

YAWN.......................

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Redreuben

Multihullers have been singing the unsinkable song for decades, now that the production apartment cats are showing flaws I think the questioning is valid.
For my money I think thicker cores particularly on the deck where it also insulated from the sun is a good call. Trouble is cost, quality foam is expensive but as a % if the build it is small. Building the flotation into the structure was and still is foams big advantage. Solid core below the waterline is false economy, a bit more glass is the answer. I’m not a fan of balsa.

Buoyancy at deck level might stop a boat from sinking completely, but it wouldn't be habitable. In fact it likely wouldn't have made this boat float any higher. Useful in the event of a capsize though.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

What an absolutely ridiculous statement!

By your statistics I'd be dead many times over! So would hundreds of Hobie, Maricat, Nacra etc etc etc etc etc sailors!

as subject is ocean going cat, that the stat I provided.

So here it goes clarify for you:

for any cat that is sailing in open ocean (bay races don't really count) and flips, chances of person surviving is less than 50%. This stat is based on all cases that I have heard over years.

Only worse odds of survival are for monohulls that lose keel - don't even have to be on open ocean.

[gspeak]

Tired so tired of the crap ..... someone trolling the interweb & then picking every disaster befalling an unfortunate catamaran owner & making an issue of it & posting it here under the guys of educating us all about how we should choose our boats & sail them. Seaslug added to ignore list. What a moron.

Get a life!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

as subject is ocean going cat, that the stat I provided..

You did say "regardless of the boat", but now you only want to include ocean going boats.... this accident happened in a marina.