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Old 06-03-2008, 22:50   #1
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Sailing a proa

G'day,

The latest Multihull World magazine has a story by an independant journalist (Mark Giles) on the launching and first few sails of the first 15m/50' Visionarry launched in Australia. Same boat as in the video at

Mark has been converted from a harry sceptic to a big fan, as has his seasick prone wife. He noted that it had a smoother ride than a cat, was very fast, a serious contender in the cruising market, cheaper than a 10m cat, plus pretty much all the benefits from the web page, etc.

A good read if you can get hold of the magazine.

regards,

Rob
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:18   #2
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Very nice Rob good work glad there are some more minds working on improving the multihull yachting and sailing community.
Are your Proas also available factory build ?

Greetings

Gideon
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Old 07-03-2008, 21:03   #3
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"cheaper than a 10m cat."

Pretty broad statement rob. Should be followed by " but is extremely difficult to sell and is a pain in the provebial because of its inabillity to tack".
Why on earth would one want to compare a 15m lopsided catamaran to a 10m cat.
I hav'nt seen the article but I'd be interested to know if the said test took place on robs usual quality of test track? ( Flat as a billiard table)

I suspect the downside of advertising on forums like this is the ability of fellow posters to point out the negatives.
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Old 07-03-2008, 22:50   #4
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True - but only if the nay sayer is regarded as knowledgeable.

The test track was the Pacific ocean off shore from Coffs harbour and a bit south.

That was a very interesting article by Mark Giles and well worth the read (same edition there was also a very interesting article on Spinnakers by Richard Woods)
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Old 08-03-2008, 00:58   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catty View Post
"cheaper than a 10m cat."

Pretty broad statement rob. Should be followed by " but is extremely difficult to sell and is a pain in the provebial because of its inabillity to tack".
Why on earth would one want to compare a 15m lopsided catamaran to a 10m cat.
I hav'nt seen the article but I'd be interested to know if the said test took place on robs usual quality of test track? ( Flat as a billiard table)

I suspect the downside of advertising on forums like this is the ability of fellow posters to point out the negatives.
Ad is spelled with one d.
Orthodox boats suffer the inability to shunt.
Knocking a report that you have not read begs the next question.
Is there some reason other than proa design that has caused you to respond to Robs posts with such venom?
Have you ever sailed any proa? One of Robs designs?
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:24   #6
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Very nice Rob good work glad there are some more minds working on improving the multihull yachting and sailing community.
Are your Proas also available factory build ?

Greetings

Gideon

G'day,

Thanks. Production proas? Not yet. Rare Bird (the one in the Youtube video) was pro built by us, and a couple of other owners have had pro help, but no one is producing them.

I have just about finished the drawings for an 18m/60 footer which we will be putting out to tender around the world. It is the first of four to the same design. If you are interested, or know anyone who might be, please let me know. Build technique is very quick (weeks, not months), as well as very light. The two hulls and beams weigh a shade over 2 tonnes on the spreadsheet. A bit hard to believe, but this is the same spreadsheet that predicted a 2 tonne weight in sailing trim for the dutch harryproa, which came in exactly on target, so we shall see.

By the way, please add me (harryproa@gmail.com) to the Green Motion mailing list as these boats (and a 20m live aboard currently under way) will all be having electric pod motors, probably mounted on the rudders for maximum maneuverability.

regards,

Rob
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:34   #7
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[quote=catty;141174]"cheaper than a 10m cat."

Pretty broad statement rob.

Rob:
Don't tell me, tell Mark Giles, who wrote it and has written more multihull tests than any other journo in Australia.

Catty Should be followed by " but is extremely difficult to sell

Rob
No argument here. 2 have been for sail for a while. People who come to look at them see things they can do differently, buy the plans and build their own. Am I complaining? No way. There are currently 5 harryproas over 18m/60' under construction and another (see previous post) looking for a yard.


Catty and is a pain in the provebial because of its inabillity to tack".

Rob; Have you ever shunted a properly sorted proa? Every cruiser (and their wives) who has shunted thinks tacking is pretty stupid and gybing completely so, particularly in a breeze.

catty Why on earth would one want to compare a 15m lopsided catamaran to a 10m cat.

Rob
Price. Certainly not speed, space, ease of handling, safety or comfort where the proa is way ahead.

Catty I hav'nt seen the article but I'd be interested to know if the said test took place on robs usual quality of test track? ( Flat as a billiard table)

Rob
Variety of conditions, inluding the video at and a wave that broke entirely over the boat crossing the Bellingen bar, with absolutely no ill effects. They also had a 30 knot squall on the nose while motoring. Boat speed only dropped 2 knots

catty I suspect the downside of advertising on forums like this is the ability of fellow posters to point out the negatives.

Rob
Absolutely not!! People pointing out the negatives is a huge upside. When I was developing the boats, the negative comments (hundreds of them) were very helpful in helping me see what could be done to improve the boats. Now that the boats are working and proving themselves, negative comments are an excellent reason for me to show why they are wrong, based on my experience with the boats. Harryproa doubters are an increasingly rare breed. Catty, if you didn't exist, I would think seriously about inventing you.

By the way, you still haven't supported your scurrilous comments about harryproa builders on the other "Sailing a proa" thread. Don't suppose you could either do so, or admit you are full of the smelly brown stuff and delete it?


regards,

Rob
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:28   #8
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Rob,

A little off subject, but what do you think about a folding proa? Should be a simpler process than a tri, possibly narrower when folded. Here on the west coast US the most difficult aspect of multihull ownership is where to put one. A proa that could fit into a regular slip could be just the ticket and might be a partial solution to the "difficult to sell" thing. With the dollar circling the drain it may even be feasible to set up production here! If you need a production manager/test sailor for your new West Coast Factory I humbly offer my services.

Mike
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:44   #9
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G'day Mike,
There are some designs for a folding Harry but so far it hasn't been a high enough priority. There are some difficulties sorting out the extras on the decks. There is a choice of keeping the ww hull upright and keeping the mast in place, with the added complexity of hinging the crossbeam or having a telescoping beam such as on Elementarry, or tucking the lw hull underneath like on a Farrrier and removing the mast. Possible but not easy. I have a couple of possible designs for both methods, and Jim Baltaxe has made some models of possible mechanisms.
Robert
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:52   #10
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G'day,

There is also the option of rotating the beams like a Dragonfly. If the mast(s) were used for this it would be a pretty simple mechanical exercise, although the layout may need a bit of thought. If you are serious about test sailing and can build it, I would be happy to provide the plans for nothing. Equally, if you are serious about setting up a shop, let me know and we can discuss it further. A factory in the US would solve a lot of shipping hassles, and as the labour hours are so low relative to other boats, the labour rates may not be such a problem.

regards,

Rob
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Old 12-03-2008, 21:14   #11
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Mark stephens form harryproa quotes

hot off the harryproa forum


Quote

Unfortunately, designing unusual and experimental boats doesn't make a lot of money and with only twenty odd plans sold over five years I need to move onto more marketable boats. The ever changing and experimental nature of Harryproas also means that a full set of plans has never been completed for any of the designs which has put a constant pressure to do new drawings and write builder support emails in the evenings, time I would rather be spending with my family.

Unquote


Gee I wonder if the customers new they weren't buying a complete set of plans.
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Old 12-03-2008, 21:18   #12
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How about a link to the source? I've searched for a harryproa forum and haven't been able to find it.
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Old 12-03-2008, 23:30   #13
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The forum as such is a Yahoo group
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

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Old 13-03-2008, 00:25   #14
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Rob, sounds like the proa scene is ramping up with a four boat order & some more plan sales, good to read its going well. All the best from Jeff.
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Old 13-03-2008, 11:53   #15
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G'day,

Like I said Catty, if you didn't exist, I would think about inventing you. This thread was dead, we now have new members signing up for the chat group. Ta.

The post you quote was written by my ex draftsman. Of course clients knew they were not getting the full set of plans immediately. Harryproas are a work in progress. I never stop improving them, so there are regular updates. Now that I am in charge of the plans, everyone gets a full set up front plus updates when they are available.
To say there was never a full set drawn is a bit mischievous. There are 7 harryproas sailing, with another one due to splash when the ice melts in Finland. They all needed plans.

The 20 plans sold is also out of date. I have sold 4 sets since the draftsman quit drawing plans last year. One 18m/60 footer (probably the first of four) one 20m/66 footer and two 15m/ 50 footers with another 50 footer likely tomorrow.

There have been some deleted posts on the chat group. Not sure what is going on there, biut should be back to normal shortly. Welcome aboard to all those who have either joined or browsed.

Thanks for the good wishes Jeff.

regards,

Rob
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