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Old 27-03-2008, 14:45   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob denney View Post
G'day,


44CC and Gideon,
My comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. Sorry I forgot the smile icon.


Rob
I knew that. But I found a video anyway.

Actually, when I first started looking at the 44C, Bob gave me the mobile number of the owners of "Xtra Chilli". When I rang Ian, he told me they were sailing down Hook island at 6 knots in 5 knots TWS, as we spoke. 120%.

Compared to my old steelie, where you wouldn't waste your time raising the sails in less than 15 knots breeze, I thought that sounded pretty nice.
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Old 27-03-2008, 17:43   #92
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BigCat,

I've been to that sight and that's why I asked the question. I do not see any postings by the builder after 12/06. What am I missing?

Thanks
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Old 27-03-2008, 18:03   #93
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Not so much-

"What am I missing?" Nothing, except that he said he ran out of $$$$. I was just giving the context-
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Old 27-03-2008, 20:48   #94
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Just finished sail no 3 on my proa.

Proa Sailing Squid


Just keeps getting better. It will be hard to go back to an "ordinary" boat again.
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Old 28-03-2008, 20:24   #95
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dyna-tenacity, lovely pictures of your pacific proa sailing and in such a pretty part of the world.

Rob has the proa fraternity disowned you? I found this quote on the multi-hull archives site from Joseph Oster the guy who has probably one of the best proa data web sites on the net at pacificproa.com

Quote "Alas, Rob Denney does a disservice to history and truth by calling his lopsided catamaran a proa... He has missed many key features of the
Pacific proa, most important of which is that the main hull to leeward
carries the load, not the windward hull. This is fundamental to
everything else including reduced mass of connecting structure, reduced
mass and volume of weather hull and extra speed possible by lifting the
weather hull free of the water. Indeed, it is crazy to claim Pacific
proa advantages for his ugly and dysfunctional catamaran." Unquote
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Old 28-03-2008, 20:31   #96
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Catty, how about posting the location/dates of the posts you refer too, I havn't the time or inclination to search for obscure references. From Jeff.
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Old 28-03-2008, 22:42   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catty View Post
Rob has the proa fraternity disowned you? I found this quote on the multi-hull archives site from Joseph Oster the guy who has probably one of the best proa data web sites on the net at pacificproa.com

Quote "Alas, Rob Denney does a disservice to history and truth by calling his lopsided catamaran a proa... He has missed many key features of the
Pacific proa, most important of which is that the main hull to leeward
carries the load, not the windward hull. This is fundamental to
everything else including reduced mass of connecting structure, reduced
mass and volume of weather hull and extra speed possible by lifting the
weather hull free of the water. Indeed, it is crazy to claim Pacific
proa advantages for his ugly and dysfunctional catamaran." Unquote
May have a good DATA site but from what you offered it sounds as if he doesn't know that there is more than just the pacific proa. The atlantic has the accom to windward and it has some advantages such as increased righting moment. Something I would have though you would be very concerned about in light of your incessant derogatory claims and inuendo.

Mike
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Old 28-03-2008, 23:27   #98
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Abaco,
All I know about First Light is on their blog. Drop him a line, he is a nice guy and very knowledgable about boats as he is a professional yachtsman, crews on some big name maxis when he is not building his dream boat.

Dana,
Cool video. How did it go against the Lasers?

Catty,
From a month ago on the now closed proa sailing thread: What owners are dissatisfied with their harry plans?
From yesterday: What facts have I twisted? What "proper testing" would you accept?
From today: The Joe Oster quote is at least a couple of years old! You must have trawled through a lot of of messages to find it. Keep reading and you will find plenty of innuendo and out of context comments to bombard me with and keep this thread going. Eventually you will get to the one where Joe realises he is wrong and that the harryproas were doing everything I said they would and he melts down in a spray of insults and obscenities, These resulted in the proa chat group banning him. So, it was actually the proa fraternity which disowned him, which is a pity as he is a knowledgable guy, unlike many of the current crop of detractors.

His web page is a beauty, except he misses out the most successful proas in the western world (harryproas).

Joe is such a firm believer in proas that he bought a trimaran. Drop him a line if you are ever feeling depressed about the continued success of harryproas. You two could have a great bitching session about them, and me.

Jeff,
If catty does give a reference, read the next few posts as well to get both sides of the story. It might be quite amusing to read the early harry posts and compare them with how the boats have developed.
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Old 28-03-2008, 23:44   #99
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So, how many designs are there out there?

So far I have found only two that suit my needs. They both seem to be descent designs - plenty of room, good storage, etc - but I was wondering if there was more in the cruising proa design market than these. Most are too small for my needs and seem quite suitable to the long distance cruise, but not for living aboard. But, the two in question do look like something along the lines of what I need. I was just wondering about variety.

The two in question are Rob's Harry Proa design and the one at Pacific Proa.com. Do any of you have any suggestions? Or do I have to throw my hat in and design my own?
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Old 29-03-2008, 00:49   #100
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G'day,
Italian Taitano,
Designing your own is one way to get what you want. Feel free to ask for advice if you decide to do this.

Dick Newick, Derek Kelsall and Kurt Hughes have all designed proas, although none of them for cruising. There are also a couple of one off french designers who may be interested in scaling their pretty stripped out designs up to live aboard.

When you get a moment, could you please let me know what features of the harryproa don't suit your needs. If you aren't serious about doing it yourself, maybe we can change what you don't like. A client in Portugal has just started cutting the frames for a 20m/66' liveaboard harry. Plenty of space and performance.

regards,

Rob
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Old 29-03-2008, 01:21   #101
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Rob, thats what I'm interested in as a "Quote" without reading the context in full of the thead/story holds little meaning, its "easy" to prove(very questionably) all kind of weird stuff with selective anectdotes & editing/ommission. All the best from Jeff.
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Old 29-03-2008, 01:42   #102
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Originally Posted by Italian Taitano View Post
So far I have found only two that suit my needs. They both seem to be descent designs - plenty of room, good storage, etc - but I was wondering if there was more in the cruising proa design market than these. Most are too small for my needs and seem quite suitable to the long distance cruise, but not for living aboard. But, the two in question do look like something along the lines of what I need. I was just wondering about variety.

The two in question are Rob's Harry Proa design and the one at Pacific Proa.com. Do any of you have any suggestions? Or do I have to throw my hat in and design my own?
G'day Italian Taitano,
Please consider the righting moment of a Pacific Proa with a Harry or an Atlantic. Also consider the possibility of being caught aback for all three. The Harry has the sheets held on the ww hull and if caught aback the rig simply weather cocks. For a Pacific proa you're in trouble unless there is plenty of bouyancy in the little hull to weather: the hull to weather needs weight for righting moment, and that can only mean very little righting moment, and therefor little sail carrying capacity, or extra weight in the form of water ballast. And there is the problem of having a mast support in the middle of the accommodation. Contrast the comfort of having your back to the wind in a comfortable cabin well clear of sailing bits and pieces in the Harry, while adding to righting moment. The only extra loads on a Harry is because of at least three times the righting moment. Can't really see there is any reason for building a Pacific when a Harry works. The Pacific Proa made sense when people were building out of hollow logs and had plenty of crew who didn't mind getting wet or racing in sheltered waters and flying a hull. There is some value in an Atlantic for really light weight racing around the harbour and Cheers is a beautiful boat but is a bit of a concern if caught aback. The Harry actually works and is user friendly.
If you would like more space in the ww hull, it is possible to do a Shuttleworth type light bulb shape - ie flare above the waterline and have a shape a bit closer to a tri centre hull, and still have the bunks extending out on the bridge deck,
Robert
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