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Old 20-03-2008, 15:25   #61
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
G'day Alan. Firstly, she isn't my boat, but a good friend's. I'd say we were probably just a little under the design displacement, maybe 4 tonnes. I was very impressed with how she sailed too.

For my build, (photo's here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...00&userid=3477 ) I got composite staunchions, rudder posts and tubes from:

Steve Holdway
Exel Composites Pty Ltd
15 Ada Street, Coopers Plains, Qld., 4108
Phone: +61 7 3274 1099 Facsimile: +61 7 3274 2041
Web site: www.exel.net - Exel Group

(I have no connection to this business)

Thanks for the link, it seems that they are a Finnish company. I will get in touch with them for a quote.

What are the rudderposts made of? Dimensions? (How well do they stand up to handling the excessive loads on these overloaded cats?? Oh, probably not a problem as the rudders are probably too small

What did you use the tubes for?

Lovely job you're doing on the boat, keep it up

Regards

Alan
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Old 20-03-2008, 15:30   #62
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Well, there you go. I never knew they were a Finnish company. Probably a lot easier for you than Queensland though.
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Old 20-03-2008, 15:50   #63
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Proas are nice, but won't always do the job of a cat-

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I think you might have the wrong guy for that setup. For that kind of capacity i would reccomend checking these designs: Incat Home Alan
Nope, it doesn't have to be that big. I was replying to Rob's idea that I should buy one of his designs instead of proceeding with my plans. Rob is really quite brilliant, but apparently a hothead, and quite sloppy when it comes to understanding the concerns of others. He was referring to the design on my website, suggesting that one of his proas would do the job better. Not a chance--one of his jobs would have to be too large to fit into a marina to meet my requirements.
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:37   #64
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Catty - you refer to a quote from Mark Stephens in an attempt to set up a straw man. The quote (unsourced) refers to Mark saying that a straight comparison with a cat is pointless and then conclude the Proa should be compared to a 10m monohull. I'll set aside your other assumptions about Rob - your proposal of a 10m mono comparison is eloquence itself.

You really do know nothing about sailing.
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:42   #65
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"You really do know nothing about sailing." Do we really need to personalize yacht design and performance issues? There has been a great deal too much of that around here lately, and I think a reform campaign that doesn't require scolding by monitors is in order. Let's all use a little restraint, and try to post with as much restraint as we would normally use in a face-to-face discussion.
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Old 20-03-2008, 16:58   #66
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And of course it isnt personal when you call someone a "hothead" and "sloppy", and tell someone else to get their mother to read to them?
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Old 20-03-2008, 17:02   #67
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Fair point BigCat - but the great value of this site is that it communicates knowledge. A proposal to compare a two hull vessel (albeit asymetric) with a 27' beam to a 10m monohull is - to my mind - ignorant. If that is "personal" then fine - it hasn't stopped others making very misleading comments on this thread so far.

I'd be interested to know more about the performance of the Proa - in high seas and when equipped for long distance cruising. This information will surely emerge. But - some here are happy to fill the void with speculation and suggesting a comparison with a 10m mono suggests the basic rules of sailing need to be set aside when assessing the Proa.

I hope espoused ignorance that misleads will be challenged on this site.
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Old 20-03-2008, 17:35   #68
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My new policy-no personal comments

I haven't started any personal exchanges, though I have responded to some in the same, though usually lighter vein. I have a new policy--I am not going to respond to them, except to place personal remarks in quote, and add, "No comment." I hope that many will refrain from commenting on the poster, and focus on commenting on the points at issue instead, rather than in addition. Rob had favored me with a few choice personal comments on another thread at
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...r-13290-8.htmlhttp://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/underwater-lines-performance-cruiser-13290-8.html
and it was Catty who suggested that 44'cruising cat ask his mum to help him understand the issues being discussed, as he seemed both confused and angry.
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Old 20-03-2008, 19:46   #69
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and it was Catty who suggested that 44'cruising cat ask his mum to help him understand the issues being discussed, as he seemed both confused and angry.
SO you deny saying it? I suggest you read your own posts a little better.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...r-13290-8.html post number 107.

As for being confused and angry, at least I can remember and comprehend my own posts. I haven't yet needed anyone else to remind me what I said a few posts earlier....

BTW how credible is someone who tells us of his "new policy" of avoiding personal comments, then follows that IMMEDIATELY by describing a member as "confused and angry"?
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Old 20-03-2008, 21:19   #70
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You started it! Did too! Did not! I'm gonna tell!

In accordance with my new personal Cruiser's Forum posting policy, I am not going to get into who said what to whom when, nor about whom. I am going to stick to commenting on sailing, boat handling, design and other relevant issues, which is what attracted me to this BBS.
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Old 20-03-2008, 21:23   #71
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Geee rubicon , we make a good pair. I know nothing about sailing and you know nothing about English. Try reading the bit of my post that upsets you so much, again, slowly .Here it is...

quote

"Surely with all the accommodation jammed in one hull, it would be more meaningful to compare it to a 10m mono? "

unquote

For some reason Rob consistently compares his 15m lopsided catamaran to a 10m cat with regard to the quantity of usable accommodation. Why?, as Mark Stephens stated on his forum, Robs proas don't even have an inside dinette like a standard 10m cruising cat.

Let alone the privacy two hulls offer.

Rubicon, try the harryproa forum for more Mark Stephens quotes, but you'll have to be quick as Rob has asked him to desist.
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Old 21-03-2008, 01:05   #72
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Angry Okay! I'm sold. . . Not that it was all that tough. ;-)

I was looking at the thread here after stumbling upon it in my search for info on modern proa design. I had been looking at building or buying a catamaran for the last few months as I want to move home to Guam this coming winter or the following fall. I want to live aboard the vessel and do so in comfort for a long time - I intend to start a family on it.

I had very few, but significant, doubts about going with a proa, mostly having to do with my considerable lack of experience with canvas. Then I read some posts by certain people here and am convinced that a proa is a good idea. I have never met a racist who could consider that which is unfamiliar to him/her to be of any worth with out some unusually stringent means of convincing. Calling the proa an "untested" design is one of the more idiotic things to come out of their mouths in a long time. If it is not motivated by some racism, then the level of ignorance displayed by such a comment actually places such a person's credibility of opinion below zero - meaning that the contrary of their argument actually gains credibility because they don't like it.

My people on both sides of my family have strong sailing traditions. But, while the European/Mediterranean side holds one of Europe's oldest sailing merchant families going back to Lady Auria in the 5th century, the other side had been plying the Pacific for millenia before they were ever heard of. Thousands of years before Alexander the Great swept across the Middle East, my ancestors were trading among themselves and with Asia and discovering new land. When the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt were building monuments to themselves and the Greeks, Romans and even the Mighty Phoenicians were mere tribes, we were just finishing our conquest of the mighty Pacific.

And we did it all in the proa. A design proven by millenia of testing and improving. The Catamaran is not an improvement on the proa, the proa is an improvement on the cat.
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Old 21-03-2008, 01:32   #73
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Geee rubicon , we make a good pair. I know nothing about sailing and you know nothing about English. Try reading the bit of my post that upsets you so much, again, slowly .Here it is...

quote

"Surely with all the accommodation jammed in one hull, it would be more meaningful to compare it to a 10m mono? "

unquote

For some reason Rob consistently compares his 15m lopsided catamaran to a 10m cat with regard to the quantity of usable accommodation. Why?, as Mark Stephens stated on his forum, Robs proas don't even have an inside dinette like a standard 10m cruising cat.

Let alone the privacy two hulls offer.

Rubicon, try the harryproa forum for more Mark Stephens quotes, but you'll have to be quick as Rob has asked him to desist.
Catty, I know that I will be banned from this site because of the followng comment, but here it goes any way:

You are a total P.O.S. I dont get it. I have no reason to defend rob. I just think that your vitriolic posts have to do with something other than not understanding the merits of traditional boat design. Do me a favor and stick a flare gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.
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Old 21-03-2008, 01:32   #74
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Prejudice? Moi? Don't think so-

The proa and the catamaran are both traditional designs that the first Europeans to encounter the Pacific islanders found when they arrived. I doubt if we will ever know which came first. I'm an old yachtie, and I doubt if any prejudice can reasonably be ascribed to my approach to sailing, as I was a very early adopter of the junk rig-Blondie Hasler actually designed my rig. I received major flack when I was building it. Proas are normally not meant to carry enough weight to live aboard and start a family on--Try a 50' or larger cat, if you don't want to overload your boat. As usual, I am moving on ahead of the crowd, and am designing my own unique rig which raises eyebrows. BTW, I sailed to Guam, and spent a typhoon season there about 28 years ago. Good old Guam, home of the most, and the most ferocious typhoons in the world-- Land of the concrete roof, because nothing else can stand up to the 'weather.'
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Old 21-03-2008, 01:35   #75
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Here are both on one page:
Oceania Voyaging Canoes
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