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Old 28-11-2017, 19:36   #1
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Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Having not done any serious Cat sailing (yet) I was just wondering what Sea and Wind states are safe on a Cat for Beam Reach sailing?
Just watched a Cat (heavily reefed) sailing in 35Kts on the beam with 5m Swell just off the beam - Looked fine, so at what point would you not want to sail on a Beam Reach?
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Old 28-11-2017, 19:40   #2
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Breaking waves.
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Old 29-11-2017, 02:55   #3
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

I quote from an earlier post of mine:
" the closest we came to capsizing our wharram was at the very end of our rtw on a beam reach, all working sails, relatively short, steep beam seas (fetch? African coast was just in sight, I don't recall how far, wind was offshore), not nearly of a height to make me reduce sail as we were going quite well (for a Wharram), & then one wave was a little steeper...the boat seemed to teeter, under deck stuff was thrown around that hadn't moved in6 years & 35000 or so miles (& worst of all the lady was roused from her sleep).
from this experience I have concluded that not only waveheight & -steepness counts: if a rotational impulse around the longitudinal axis of the boat is strong enough it will impart so much rotational energa to the boat that it will capsize even though the "static" waveheight & -steepness is not enough to do so (anyone disbelieving: you can tip a chair over by slowly pushing is past it's no-return point, but you can also give it a short sharp shove & it will topple too.)"
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Old 29-11-2017, 02:58   #4
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Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Was that my YouTube video in L450 south of Minerva Reef? If so, yes I felt safe with the pitch and roll with treble reefed. Didn’t spill the wine Also we are quite a heavy cat. Cheers, Dave
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Old 29-11-2017, 04:36   #5
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

I thought the accepted wisdom on sailboats was that no seas, no matter how big, could roll a boat if the waves are not breaking. But once you get breakers, all bets are off.

Is this not true of cruising cats also?
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Old 29-11-2017, 04:45   #6
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

it is how much rotational energy gets imparted! this depends (among others) on the relation height:steepness:speed of propagation of the wave. imho a 6 foot wave with the "right" steepness & speed can capsize a 10m cat. of course it would matter too how hard it is driven at the moment
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Old 29-11-2017, 10:34   #7
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavefromNZ View Post
Was that my YouTube video in L450 south of Minerva Reef? If so, yes I felt safe with the pitch and roll with treble reefed. Didn’t spill the wine Also we are quite a heavy cat. Cheers, Dave
Would be wonderful if you'd include a link to the video Dave. I'm sure many here would enjoy watching. Thanks Grant (Wellington NZ)
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Old 29-11-2017, 10:46   #8
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

When a part of your anatomy begins to pucker. Sea height alone says nothing. There are a bunch of variables so an opinion could be dangerous.
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Old 29-11-2017, 10:47   #9
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Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Hi Grant. Here is the link to the sailing in 32-35kts it starts at time 09:50 onwards. Cheers, Dave. PS Sorry about the music, I was learning!https://youtu.be/EHYiGH3QTTs
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Old 29-11-2017, 17:06   #10
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

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Originally Posted by DavefromNZ View Post
Hi Grant. Here is the link to the sailing in 32-35kts it starts at time 09:50 onwards. Cheers, Dave. PS Sorry about the music, I was learning!https://youtu.be/EHYiGH3QTTs
Thanks Dave, Yes it was your video
Thanks for all the other replies as well
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Old 30-11-2017, 01:04   #11
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Beam reaching in breaking seas should be considered somewhere between dangerous and dumb ...
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:15   #12
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

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Originally Posted by DavefromNZ View Post
Hi Grant. Here is the link to the sailing in 32-35kts it starts at time 09:50 onwards. Cheers, Dave. PS Sorry about the music, I was learning!https://youtu.be/EHYiGH3QTTs
Nice footage, Dave. Which drone were you using and did you launch while underway? We're looking at buying a drone and launching from our wide tramps should be easy; I'm just not sure if the movement of the boat makes it tricky (obviously if we doing 12+ knots, it will!)

Thanks,
~Lee
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:55   #13
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

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Nice footage, Dave. Which drone were you using and did you launch while underway? We're looking at buying a drone and launching from our wide tramps should be easy; I'm just not sure if the movement of the boat makes it tricky (obviously if we doing 12+ knots, it will!)

Thanks,
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Have a look at:

https://store.dji.com/product/mavic-...Search/BINGSEM
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:31   #14
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

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Yeah, I'm familiar with all the DJI drones, but I didn't recognize the controller he was using, and saw it was tricky bringing it back on board, so I wondered which one he used.

Regards,
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:27   #15
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Re: Safe Beam Sea/Wind Conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO View Post
Having not done any serious Cat sailing (yet) I was just wondering what Sea and Wind states are safe on a Cat for Beam Reach sailing?
Just watched a Cat (heavily reefed) sailing in 35Kts on the beam with 5m Swell just off the beam - Looked fine, so at what point would you not want to sail on a Beam Reach?
Theory says that the wawes higher than the beam of the cat can cause big problems. Many experienced offshore cat sailors also say that in high waves you should avoid taking them on the beam as much as you can.

The video below shows pretty much the conditions you were questionning; 33 kts of wind, 4-5 meters short waves (this was in Aegean sea) just on the beam. As you can see I was sailing at around 14 kts and the boat didn't seem at risk at all



There is no general rule that can be applied to all cats. Every cat would behave differently under similar conditioıns.

Cheers

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