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Old 04-02-2015, 04:42   #106
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

that antares to my mind is terribly old fashioned..ok carpentry is extremely good quality just like my 20 + years old current sailing boat...what i m looking for is lights, a lot of light ( very small porthole on the antares) an airy feel , light color carpentry and space ( without even speaking about sailing quality)..so for me antares is the multihull version of a halberg rassy ... beautiful craftmanship but so old fashion i would need to wear a blue cap and call myself captain...

italian cats like mattia or slyder, would certainly be around the same price point but more stylish

fact is the whole subject saba vs antares is more about mass production cats vs handcrafted ( if i can say) or semi custom cats.

on the one hand you have the 2-3 giants lagoon , FP & leopard and behind that with around 50 cats a year nautitech..then you have the semi custom or custom brands outremer, catana, antares, lerouge & schionning design cats etc.

pricewise nobody can beat the price given by the big 3 and the volume of production which implies very good buying pricepoints..on the other hand apparently more quality i.e robust built boats with great performances.

it all comes down to what you want and what you want to do with it ( and how much you have) in my case as i plan to live aboard for a few year but mainly in port i want space and i want a boat that i can resell without loosing too much in 10 years time...it implies a big boat ( we are 5), second hand that has already lost most of its depreciation..so i m looking at a L500...after that when ( and if , it s a long time away) it will be time to travel far and long with my wife it will probably be smaller and more recent ( catana, outremer etc45 ft or around)...the good news is that old ( 20 years +) mass production boats are still around and some in very good conditions which makes them cheap...
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Old 11-02-2015, 15:07   #107
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

we are looking at a 50ft saba, to be built
....6 cabins...any ideas about placing this in charter?
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Old 11-02-2015, 15:33   #108
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by sandymwp View Post
we are looking at a 50ft saba, to be built
....6 cabins...any ideas about placing this in charter?
I could help you out with that one. Don't want to violate the rules of the forum. Send me a PM

I can also give you some feedback on hull #2 and what we learned on that one.

Jay
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Old 11-02-2015, 16:07   #109
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by sandymwp View Post
we are looking at a 50ft saba, to be built
....6 cabins...any ideas about placing this in charter?

Man CaptJay is fast!!!

I spent a week on hull #2 and would be glad to answer any specific questions as well.


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Old 11-02-2015, 21:25   #110
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Cmon Jay and Rubi give us your feedback. You can use general terms like above average, average and so on. Actually I think average is OK.
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Old 11-02-2015, 21:38   #111
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Saba 50 vs Antares

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Cmon Jay and Rubi give us your feedback. You can use general terms like above average, average and so on. Actually I think average is OK.

If you back up to the beginning of this thread I made very specific comments about her. What feedback are you requesting? Jay did the commissioning after it arrived. I spent a week sailing and living on it with charter guests.


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Old 12-02-2015, 13:08   #112
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by sandymwp View Post
we are looking at a 50ft saba, to be built
....6 cabins...any ideas about placing this in charter?
I came into this world by buying a boat and putting in charter and I finished up owning a charter company... So, I've been on both side of the table. Here are my toughts;

-Saba 50 is an excellent boat for charter and every charter company would love to have her on their fleet.

-Putting a boat in charter is an excellent idea IF you can find a the right charter company, otherwise, it can turn out to a nightmare pretty soon..

-charter version of each boat has more chance in charter both in terms of getting more booking and at better weekly prices. (more cabins and heads, more people to share the expenses..) Nonetheless, at the end of charter, owner versions are sold easier and at better price.

-Most people tend to go the companies which they believe they can ensure better occupancy for their boats, hence, better income. BUT, this is a big mistake..The single most important factors determining the ROI are the initial purchase prices of the boat and the second hand value of the boat after charter period. A company X can guarantee very high yearly incomes if they don't look after yr boat. Or even worse, they still don't look after yr boat but they keep on charging you various nonsense expenses. If the boat is not properly kept, you willl have a wreck at the end of the charter period and will have to spend tons of $ to put back yr boat in shape to be able to sail her away or sell it to a decent price. Because of these kind of people boats going out of charter have such a bad reputation.

-I am amazed to see claims like "guaranteed income of 10-11%". Trust me, this simply is impossible. Read very carefully the mostly one sided charter agreements to avoid bad surprises.

-As I said, the initial purchase value of the boat is key. I know that FP dealers offers discount from 0 to 12-13 %. Yr charter company should help you getting the max. discount possible. Some optional equipment are cheaper to get from the factory some are not. You can save a lot of money by taking the right options from the right sources.

-Hire a boat from the company/ies you are considering and see how they do perform the check in/out procedures and visit one of the oldest boat of the fleet..

-Finally, don't put on a charter boat the options like washing machines and so on that don't add any value to charter customers. The charter company should know better than you what is needed what is not. After charter period you may add whatever you want..

Good luck..

Yeloya



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Old 13-02-2015, 03:26   #113
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Cmon Jay and Rubi give us your feedback. You can use general terms like above average, average and so on. Actually I think average is OK.
Let me say that Yeloya has some very good advice about charter and charter boats. The level of care of your boat in charter is huge at the end.

For the Saba, we manage hull number 2 Cuvee. This boat was the display boat at Annapolis this year and the boat the Sail Magazine judged. She is a very well equipped owners version. The boat was sailed across on her own bottom from France to Annapolis and then delivered on her own bottom from Annapolis to St Thomas after the show. She has done some serious sea time with very few issues, none of them substantial.

When the boat arrived in Annapolis there where a couple of hatches that leaked minor amounts of water. They where and haven't given any new trouble. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to sail the boat. I was out with Rubikoop for one day with the owners and we had a rare no wind day. Rubikoop did get to sail it and you can see his comments earlier in this thread.

The owner of the boat who is one of the most analytical people you will ever meet, he is a nuclear engineer, was just on board for two and a half weeks and came back with three pages of notes and observations on the boat. On that list where a half dozen minor issues. A loose screw, minor damage to a strap on the main sail after several thousand miles of off shore work. The single biggest issue was a poorly designed fairlead on the dinghy davits which we fixed by adding two cheek blocks. By the way the new davits are a dream compared to the Helia davits.

We manage hulls number 2,3,6, and now 89 of the Helia's. These boats do very well in charter. Everyone loves them, the owners the guests and our crew. FP learned a lot building the Helia. We have three of the first ones every built in our fleet. I personally did a lot of work on the initial production problems on the Helia. FP has solved all of those, taken care of the repairs on the early hulls and is building a better product for the experience. The Saba is a very good boat that benefited from the lessons learned on the Helia. It is selling very well and you could do much worse for your money if your looking at this class of boat.

Jay
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Old 13-02-2015, 15:51   #114
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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The Saba is a very good boat that benefited from the lessons learned on the Helia. It is selling very well and you could do much worse for your money if your looking at this class of boat.

Jay
Thanks Jay. I am looking forward to seeing it in 2 weeks time. I've put a thread on yhe Antares forum about space etc but not too many comments... this leaves me thinking it may be a bit small. We, thankfully, live in a large house and are used to a lot of space (our main lounge is 30feet long) so something like the Saba may be a good bet. I've been sent details of an Australian cat as well @ 46ft I'm also considering.

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Old 14-02-2015, 20:29   #115
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Thanks Jay. I am looking forward to seeing it in 2 weeks time. I've put a thread on yhe Antares forum about space etc but not too many comments... this leaves me thinking it may be a bit small. We, thankfully, live in a large house and are used to a lot of space (our main lounge is 30feet long) so something like the Saba may be a good bet. I've been sent details of an Australian cat as well @ 46ft I'm also considering.

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Having been on both boats, the Saba has considerably more storage, but to be fair it should have, it's a much larger boat.
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Old 15-02-2015, 07:36   #116
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I am looking forward to seeing it in 2 weeks time.
When you do see the Saba - or any other boat - check out the steering linkage: how the helm communicates with the rudders.

I do not know what the form of linkage is on the Saba, but I do know what it is on the Antares (see the Antares web info). This is one of the reasons the Antares is so much more expensive. JMHO

Dave
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Old 15-02-2015, 10:24   #117
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Thanks Jay and Rubi. I did go back and read the first page. I forgot about that. It looks like the Saba is a good one!
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Old 15-02-2015, 14:25   #118
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

IMHO both the mechanical steering and the shaft drives on the Antares put it at the top of the list for me.
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Old 15-02-2015, 15:57   #119
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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IMHO both the mechanical steering and the shaft drives on the Antares put it at the top of the list for me.
There are cons to shaft drives, most notably flooding potential and difficulty of engine removal. But the only con to mechanical steering is cost.

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Old 15-02-2015, 17:24   #120
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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There are cons to shaft drives, most notably flooding potential and difficulty of engine removal. But the only con to mechanical steering is cost.



Dave

I wonder which would flood quicker, losing a shaft in a shaft drive or losing both seals in a sailsdrive boat.
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