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Old 19-01-2015, 16:44   #91
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
Thanks guys for backing me up. You all have more experience than me but I have this flaw in the ability to remember things I read with or without pictures.

I never said FP, Lagoon or Catana were bad boats, just that they were average in the issues department. I would buy any of these in a heartbeat subject to survey, etc.
I like L380s, 400s, 410s etc and the 440s are extremely popular. Same with all of FPs boats and Catanas. I wouldn't say no to a Dean either but would look at it (very) carefully.
My only issue is without any qualification you 'ranked' the manufacturers. If you had stated that it is your opinion, not based on experience, but based on secondhand knowledge from the Internet, then those reading could evaluate the your post.

You are certainly entitled to express your opinion.
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Old 19-01-2015, 17:08   #92
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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So, all of your knowledge is conjecture from secondhand information read on the Internet.

Just wanted to see if you are an authority or just acting as one.....
I have been on two Admiral 40's with significant structural issues. I have also spent 5 months with a third Admiral 40 in a yard that when all of its skin fittings were pulled out, water poured out of the core, and continued to leak out for months.

I have been on several Admiral 38's that had no issues I could tell other than age and use. These boats were built quite a number of years before the 40 model.

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Old 19-01-2015, 17:12   #93
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Thanks ColemJ. I have just tried to be fair in my assessment. Is your Manta all vinylester or part? Any blisters or osmosis?
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Old 19-01-2015, 17:26   #94
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I wouldn't go that far. That's like saying the quality of most boats is
comparable. With "established manufacturers" buyers are guaranteed no more than
getting a boat whose "quality", aka value, has been established by the market at
that price point. There are real differences among builders and some
contributors here can offer first hand comparisons. It's incumbent on the
reader to separate the valuable info from BS. I'll add that build quality is a
separate topic than design and intent of purpose. A terrific racing boat could be a
horrible cruiser, and vice versa....
Well, quality is an oft misused word. In this context I am referring to Quality as "fitness for purpose". You may also refer to Quality by a number of other criteria. Obviously, a Gunboat is a very highly specified product, and if I commission a Schionning I can build in quality criteria depending on how much money I plow into the product. You may refer to quality as degree of support but this will vary depending on who you deal with and what geographic region you are located in.

My point was that most all production boats today are "fit for purpose". If you want to pay extra dollars to make the product look, feel and possible sail better then fair enough. If you want a significant degree of support evaluate the quality of the broker as much as the manufacturer.

Granted, my view is formed as someone who has been in the business of manufacturing for over 35 years (not in the marine industry) and I have learned not to trust anecdotal input, and only rely on empirical data. I personally cannot distinguish between Lagoon, Leopard, FP, Catana, Outremer, Antares in terms of the quality of the build of the boat, but I am used to putting aside my views on other issues and simply looking at what is in front of me. Obviously the strategies and materials are different and all provide a good product, but to rank them in terms of quality is flawed without first a definition of what you are referring to and then serious statistical information to back up any statement made.

However, as with all things in life, this is simply my opinion formed by a resolute adherence to logic and the scientific method. It has been my experience in sailing that I am often in the minority, and most opinions are formed by a whole host of other factors, mostly emotional, of which brokers and manufacturers cleverly take serious advantage.
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Old 19-01-2015, 17:40   #95
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Is your Manta all vinylester or part? Any blisters or osmosis?
Manta used vinylester on the outer skin and polyester on the rest. They also epoxy barrier coated them below the waterline. No blisters or osmosis on ours, and I have never heard of another Manta having them.

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Old 30-01-2015, 10:41   #96
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Just listed. It will be interesting to see how long before it's under contract.
2007 PDQ Antares 44i Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 30-01-2015, 23:49   #97
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

I saw that a while ago sand crab... if I had the money now it would be my ideal boat I think. It has just about every option for fun and comfort imaginable. I'd prefer something a little newer if I was being honedt but thats only because I don't know about a boat's "trouble free" lifespan. I know I'll have maintenance but wouldn't want one where too many things went wrong all at once

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Old 31-01-2015, 05:56   #98
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

$700k for a used 44' cat -- Wow. For that I'd take the Catana 581 Aurora. She's a real world wide sailing machine. I don't care who made a boat and what it has on it, as some point you have to say WTF that's a lot of money per foot.
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Old 31-01-2015, 06:12   #99
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I'd prefer something a little newer if I was being honedt but thats only because I don't know about a boat's "trouble free" lifespan.
There is no such thing - old or new. If you think you've achieved it, you're not paying attention or you haven't left the dock....

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Old 31-01-2015, 14:50   #100
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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There is no such thing - old or new. If you think you've achieved it, you're not paying attention or you haven't left the dock....

2 Hulls Dave
wishful thinking huh? Ah well.. I suppose somewhere in my head I was hoping for a relatively trouble-free gap between 2-8yrs where the initial problems were fixed but age hadn't taken its toll.. back to the drawing board I guess
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Old 31-01-2015, 15:17   #101
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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wishful thinking huh? Ah well.. I suppose somewhere in my head I was hoping for a relatively trouble-free gap between 2-8yrs where the initial problems were fixed but age hadn't taken its toll.. back to the drawing board I guess

Working for a charter company and seeing boats made by different manufacturers aged from months to nearly a decade old, in some rare cases, there is no magic age that they are defect free.


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Old 31-01-2015, 15:27   #102
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I suppose somewhere in my head I was hoping for a relatively trouble-free gap between 2-8yrs where the initial problems were fixed but age hadn't taken its toll..
Yea, sorry. That's not an unreasonable line of thinking if you're applying typical car or home expectations. But these things aren't cars or homes, per se. This doesn't mean initial problems haven't been beaten down some and old age problems haven't shown up en mass - both reasonable expectations. But all the random and expected and routine preventive and "oops, I screwed up" corrective maintenance items so much overwhelm the break-in and aging issues that whatever "gain" you thought you might have achieved in the "grace period" is lost in the noise. Owning a complex cruising vessel is a full time job - if you have any expectation of staying ahead. But with the right attitude, it's part of the enjoyment. Just accept that, OK? Just nod your head. OK. You'll do fine....

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Old 31-01-2015, 17:57   #103
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

If you look closely at Antares Yachtworld photos',you'll see they were taken in 2011 !!! Nice cat though $770k seems spendy for an 8 y old.I figure this is a charter cat.
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Old 31-01-2015, 20:20   #104
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

The ad says it has never been chartered.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:36   #105
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

The ad says never been chartered but they certainly have had a good few guests (photos on site)..

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