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Old 12-01-2015, 19:13   #31
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

I guess I tend to disagree, it has everything to do with boat. Why would you wait 3 years if you could get an equivalent boat elsewhere today?
For us, we just couldn't find another boat that hit all the right criteria for a cruising couple.


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Old 12-01-2015, 19:39   #32
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

The Antares 44 whilst a nice vessel that certainly has set a benchmark for a cruising catamaran is nowdays a very old design.

I believe there are much later designs that achieve much of the same at a better price with more room.

Currently there is an older built PQD 44 in my home port Mackay.

Just 2.

Manta 46 - http://www.hy-techmarine.com/Media/Manta-46.pdf

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Old 12-01-2015, 19:42   #33
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
I guess I tend to disagree, it has everything to do with boat. Why would you wait 3 years if you could get an equivalent boat elsewhere today?
For us, we just couldn't find another boat that hit all the right criteria for a cruising couple.
+1. That's it in a nutshell. Nice boat BTW
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Old 12-01-2015, 22:02   #34
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

You miss the point.

The Antares is not a bad boat and obviously people are interested in it.

However, if you have 10-12 buyers as a manufacturer you have the choice to build them over 3 years, 1 year or 3 months. Each of these involves a different business strategy. Plainly, if you think that only the demand of 10-12 boats is there, it is smart to make people wait. If you think there is a greater demand then you amp up the volume and attempt to reduce the price, but only if you believe their to be greater demand.

It is clear that the Antares have a following of 10-12 people at any given time who believe the boat is for them and all power to them. All power to the builder who then makes them wait 3 years to suit their own business model which caters for low numbers of interest.

It is also clear that in 2 years the Helia has built or in the pipeline 100 boats and they elect to have a very different business model. They now know that at any given time there are around 50 interested buyers and that 1 year is around an acceptable delivery time and thus they have geared for volume and consequently they are cheaper.

Not saying either boat is better or worse, nor either business strategy is better or worse. It is just that they have different outcomes. The strategy will certainly determine the price point and the resale value (given there are less). If you like the boat and are prepared to pay the extra cost then it will work for you. Otherwise not. The manufacturer clearly understands this point and it is an essential part of its business strategy.
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Old 12-01-2015, 23:14   #35
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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You miss the point.

The Antares is not a bad boat and obviously people are interested in it.

However, if you have 10-12 buyers as a manufacturer you have the choice to build them over 3 years, 1 year or 3 months. Each of these involves a different business strategy. Plainly, if you think that only the demand of 10-12 boats is there, it is smart to make people wait. If you think there is a greater demand then you amp up the volume and attempt to reduce the price, but only if you believe their to be greater demand.

It is clear that the Antares have a following of 10-12 people at any given time who believe the boat is for them and all power to them. All power to the builder who then makes them wait 3 years to suit their own business model which caters for low numbers of interest.

It is also clear that in 2 years the Helia has built or in the pipeline 100 boats and they elect to have a very different business model. They now know that at any given time there are around 50 interested buyers and that 1 year is around an acceptable delivery time and thus they have geared for volume and consequently they are cheaper.

Not saying either boat is better or worse, nor either business strategy is better or worse. It is just that they have different outcomes. The strategy will certainly determine the price point and the resale value (given there are less). If you like the boat and are prepared to pay the extra cost then it will work for you. Otherwise not. The manufacturer clearly understands this point and it is an essential part of its business strategy.
I did not say the Antares was a bad boat rather that it is a nice boat that has been a benchmark for cruising catamarans but with the release of heaps of new design catamarans (hard to keep up with all the new releases)it is now an old design starting to show its age.

Certainly Antares are maximizing their tooling but I think it is possibly about time they looked toward an updated hull using similar principles to keep their business strategy moving foward.

For the money at present I would prefer a Helia 44 but that's simply my preference and yours too.

The PQD 42 Stray Kitty is for sale in Mackay marina with an asking price of $399,00 aust imported.

cheers
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Old 13-01-2015, 04:31   #36
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

I'm very grateful for people's opinions of different cats. I originally fell in love with a Sunreef 58 but an Antares crew member told me he'd sailed a number of Sunreef models and that I'd spend half my time under power.. not what I had invisaged. It was he who suggested the Antares but also sparked my curiosity into other makes.. thus the post.
I suppose what some people are suggesting here is that the Antares is a bit like a Morgan.. high price, constant waiting list because of low production figures but essentially exactly what some buyers want.
I am still a little confused over a boat design people talk about and thats the location of the helm. I liked Ted Clements comments about the need for a good protected view (thats why it has a proper windscreen) but some people think its all wrong??

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Old 13-01-2015, 05:53   #37
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Saba 50 vs Antares

Ted Clements makes many very good points. Protected helm, shaft drives, skegged rudders....large opening port lights... Etc. Long list! Very well thought out boat.
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Old 13-01-2015, 06:51   #38
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I am still a little confused over a boat design people talk about and thats the location of the helm. I liked Ted Clements comments about the need for a good protected view (thats why it has a proper windscreen) but some people think its all wrong??
Yes. Depending on what you want in a boat and your approach to sailing. Why let somebody else tell you what you want?

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Old 13-01-2015, 07:45   #39
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

A serious question for any Antares owner: With the engines located where they are, can you get them out without major surgery on the boat? How is it done?

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Old 13-01-2015, 08:09   #40
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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........I am still a little confused over a boat design people talk about and thats the location of the helm. I liked Ted Clements comments about the need for a good protected view (thats why it has a proper windscreen) but some people think its all wrong??
I'll defend a bulkhead helm till the end as that's what I prefer. When it's cold, blowing, raining, rough, and dark (or just want some sun protection) is when you appreciate a bulkhead helm. Others love their flybridge helms, and I'm sure they are fantastic in good weather, but with two of us operating the boat, we like the ability to talk to each other and move in/out of the salon with ease.

But boat design includes other than helm placement. Engines in the living space are not a positive IMO and it appears the Antares design thwarts adaquate sounding proofing of the engine/transmission, as it's very loud in the hulls while motoring. Shaft drives are less maintenance (mostly pschologically) compared to saildrives, but the upside of saildrives are no engine/oils/diesel (due to aft placement) in the living space. I also wonder about balance/load capacity of the Antares as the rear step is underwater while motoring.

Its a beautiful boat and I spent a lot of hours looking at it and that is my conclusion. YMMV
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Old 13-01-2015, 12:04   #41
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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The Antares is probably one of the best built and best equipped cats made. Certainly best equipped anyway. They are backed up years on orders so that tells you how people feel about them. They are expensive but do hold value well. I don't know anything about the Saba.
Dean had some build issues with the 440 and some were very public. This episode has brought down the price for the entire line. The new D50 is a headturner but not necessarily in a good way. Aren't they changing the name to Dream or something like that?
I totally agree with Sandcrab.....go with the Antares (from captain Chris)!!!
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Old 13-01-2015, 12:59   #42
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Quote:
I'll defend a bulkhead helm till the end as that's what I prefer. When it's cold, blowing, raining, rough, and dark (or just want some sun protection) is when you appreciate a bulkhead helm. Others love their flybridge helms, and I'm sure they are fantastic in good weather, but with two of us operating the boat, we like the ability to talk to each other and move in/out of the salon with ease.
Flybridge helms are also fantastic when its cold, blowing, raining, rough, and dark providing they have the right protection installed. We also have the ability to talk to each other and move in/out of the salon with ease via a couple of steps.
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Old 13-01-2015, 13:28   #43
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I'll defend a bulkhead helm till the end as that's what I prefer. When it's cold, blowing, raining, rough, and dark (or just want some sun protection) is when you appreciate a bulkhead helm. Others love their flybridge helms, and I'm sure they are fantastic in good weather, but with two of us operating the boat, we like the ability to talk to each other and move in/out of the salon with ease.

But boat design includes other than helm placement. Engines in the living space are not a positive IMO and it appears the Antares design thwarts adaquate sounding proofing of the engine/transmission, as it's very loud in the hulls while motoring. Shaft drives are less maintenance (mostly pschologically) compared to saildrives, but the upside of saildrives are no engine/oils/diesel (due to aft placement) in the living space. I also wonder about balance/load capacity of the Antares as the rear step is underwater while motoring.

Its a beautiful boat and I spent a lot of hours looking at it and that is my conclusion. YMMV
Balance load capacity - With engines the heaviest item on the vessel located in the center of the vessel its a good starting point rather than at the extremity. Certrally locating all heavy items is a design rational of the FF46 with mast also centrally located.

If rear step is underwater I suspect it will be design displacement needs upgrading as it is on the limit as it is a fully equipt full time liveaboard vessel. That would have been why it was originally stretched from 42 to 44.
needs 46.

Having helm protected from bad weather as in Antares is great.
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Old 13-01-2015, 14:05   #44
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

2Hulls:
Dave, yes the engines can be removed from the Antares 44s.
The cross beams under the passageways between the aft cabins and the galley(port) and owners head suite (st'bd) are slotted into place. No tools are required to remove all flooring and cross beams you can then disconnect engine and gearbox and lift out.
Paul



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Old 13-01-2015, 14:08   #45
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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2Hulls:
Dave, yes the engines can be removed from the Antares 44s.
The cross beams under the passageways between the aft cabins and the galley(port) and owners head suite (st'bd) are slotted into place. No tools are required to remove all flooring and cross beams you can then disconnect engine and gearbox and lift out.
Roger. I suspected there were provisions built in... Thx
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