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Old 16-02-2015, 15:49   #136
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
When you do see the Saba - or any other boat - check out the steering linkage: how the helm communicates with the rudders.

I do not know what the form of linkage is on the Saba, but I do know what it is on the Antares (see the Antares web info). This is one of the reasons the Antares is so much more expensive. JMHO

Dave
Thanks Dave, I had read the Antares site about steering linkage and must admit it looked pretty bombproof to me.. Any other things I should look at/for on the Saba?
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Old 16-02-2015, 16:20   #137
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

This is not a secret. The steering linkage on the Saba is hydraulic.
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Old 16-02-2015, 17:01   #138
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by Heath68 View Post
Thanks Dave, I had read the Antares site about steering linkage and must admit it looked pretty bombproof to me.
"Bombproof" is one thing, sensitivity and feedback and "feel" is another. A solid, mechanical system should serve both desires. Cats, by their nature, do not provide the generally desired helm feedback of well designed and built monos that have good steering. This is not new news. Given that detrimental starting point, the last thing a cat should have is a poorly designed and built steering system that just exacerbates the "poor feedback" problem. The very best "system" are tillers attached to the top of the rudder stocks. Everything else is a compromise - and the more moving parts and opportunity for "slop" and friction in the system between rudders and helm just contributes to worse steering performance.

In the perfect world we would all have the opportunity the visit all cats we're considering buying while they are hauled. You can learn a lot from below. One "test" to perform is to grab one of the rudders and try to turn it. The ease of turning indicates the quality of the steering gear. (If the system is hydraulic, I don't know enough about hydraulics to advise what to conclude. But hydraulic systems are acknowledged to have less feel.) Generally, helms located far from the rudders have to have more complicated and/or lengthy linkages. The further apart they are, the worse they will be unless engineering solutions, like solid mechanical systems, are employed.

The design of the rudders themselves are another topic altogether as regards helm feedback.

In the end, helm "feel" means nothing on autopilot. This gets back to what you want to experience with your boat. Some people don't give a hoot about helm feel. To others, it's a big deal. Do you want to sail your boat or merely point it? Autopilots are stupid and don't care - but a good linkage system means fewer amps getting consumed by the AP.

As for other things to look at - electrical distribution and plumbing. Is there a rat's nest of wires behind the panels or a haphazard run of tubing? Just compare as you look at boats and the better builds will be revealed.

JMHO

Dave
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Old 17-02-2015, 12:29   #139
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Thanks Jay. I am looking forward to seeing it in 2 weeks time. I've put a thread on yhe Antares forum about space etc but not too many comments... this leaves me thinking it may be a bit small. We, thankfully, live in a large house and are used to a lot of space (our main lounge is 30feet long) so something like the Saba may be a good bet. I've been sent details of an Australian cat as well @ 46ft I'm also considering.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Just returned from the Miami show and personally was not impressed by the Antares from a space and cosmetic perspective. The galley down for me was an issue and compared to other boats, the Antares seemed dark and a little cramped. The cockpit in particular was cluttered and not impressive.

I should qualify that since this was a show, there was a lot of traffic that might have added to the perspective that it was cramped.

Finally, the interior styling made it feel like an old boat. Lots of real wood and curves. If you like contemporary then the styling might not appeal.

Since the OP was comparing to the SABA 50, it was night and day. Loved the light and space on the SABA but it is a much bigger cat and that should be expected. Excellent styling and use of space.

For me it was a tie between SABA and Dean 5000 (Xquisite X5 for new boats) for space, styling and layout.
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Old 17-02-2015, 13:06   #140
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Ruslan 124,
Did you happen to look at the St. Francis and the Privilege 50? What was your impression of those compared to the Saba?
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Old 17-02-2015, 13:20   #141
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Ruslan 124,
Did you happen to look at the St. Francis and the Privilege 50? What was your impression of those compared to the Saba?
I did and here is a quick rundown of my personal opinions mostly from a cosmetic point of view of those and the other cats

Priveledge Series 5 - Really liked it. Lots of light and nice balance of space between cockpit and saloon. Excellent galley layout.

St Francis - Very similar in feel to the Knynsa. Build quality looked excellent. Lots of what appeared solid wood. Saloon was a little small for my liking. Boat appears dimly lit on the interior. It was a nice boat but just not to my taste.

SABA 50 and Helia 44. Loved them both. SABA 50 was one of my top 3. Space, style, colors, layout. Of course has a flybridge which may not be to everyones liking. Helia 44 very nice as well. It is nicely layed out.

Catana - Did not like very much. Felt cramped. Dagger boards do get in the way. Saloon too small

Antares 44i - Disappointed. Galley down not to my taste. Styling a little dated. Felt cramped but it did have a quality feel. I think it needs a major refresh.
Nautitech Open 40 - Nice styling but a heavy emphasis on outdoor space. The cockpit is large and the saloon very small. I am also not keen on the twin stern positioned helms. Visibility from the helm is excellent. Boat is alos a little on the small side.

Moorings 5800 - So big (especially height) I decided not to wait to get on for a look.

Leopards - All very nicely designed. However cushions were not out so gave an overall negative feel of it being a plastic boat. I understand they are pretty much all like that but soft furnishings do a lot to alleviate the feeling. The Leopard 48 was very nice. Forward cockpit not to some peoples liking but it did appeal to me.

Lagoon - We gave up waiting to look at these boats. Had to sign up and wait around for a broker. 20 minutes later we moved on. We looked at the smaller lagoons and practical but nothing that screamed desire to me.

Outremer 51 - Pretty nice boat. I quite liked it but not enough to make the top 3. Nothing specific to complain about.
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Old 17-02-2015, 13:41   #142
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Any guess on the base price of the Privilege? The St. Francis used to be about $850k ready to cruise. That was 5 years ago though. I'd guess the Privilege at $1.1m judging from the photo's.


It's crazy looking at cat's because none seem to fit my 4 main criteria. Bulkhead helm, large dingy storage, shaft drive, and aesthetic's. I must be one of the few who needs, and I mean really needs, a big dingy. 14' would be a minimum. Only the St. Francis, Voyage, and the new Privilege seem to allow that.
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Old 17-02-2015, 13:52   #143
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Any guess on the base price of the Privilege? The St. Francis used to be about $850k ready to cruise. That was 5 years ago though. I'd guess the Privilege at $1.1m judging from the photo's.


It's crazy looking at cat's because none seem to fit my 4 main criteria. Bulkhead helm, large dingy storage, shaft drive, and aesthetic's. I must be one of the few who needs, and I mean really needs, a big dingy. 14' would be a minimum. Only the St. Francis, Voyage, and the new Privilege seem to allow that.
I do not have info on the series 5 but according to Multihulls world buyers guide, the series 4.9 base price is Euros 620,000

Problem with the buyers guide is you have no idea what you get for that base price.
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Old 17-02-2015, 13:59   #144
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I do not have info on the series 5 but according to Multihulls world buyers guide, the series 4.9 base price is Euros 620,000

Problem with the buyers guide is you have no idea what you get for that base price.
I found the Series 5 base price - Euros 915,000
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Old 17-02-2015, 14:45   #145
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

It is absolutely crazy what you can buy in residential real estate compared to a boat isn't it Thanks for the info.
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Old 17-02-2015, 14:55   #146
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Originally Posted by ruslan124 View Post
Just returned from the Miami show and personally was not impressed by the Antares from a space and cosmetic perspective. The galley down for me was an issue and compared to other boats, the Antares seemed dark and a little cramped. The cockpit in particular was cluttered and not impressive.

I should qualify that since this was a show, there was a lot of traffic that might have added to the perspective that it was cramped.

Finally, the interior styling made it feel like an old boat. Lots of real wood and curves. If you like contemporary then the styling might not appeal.

Since the OP was comparing to the SABA 50, it was night and day. Loved the light and space on the SABA but it is a much bigger cat and that should be expected. Excellent styling and use of space.

For me it was a tie between SABA and Dean 5000 (Xquisite X5 for new boats) for space, styling and layout.
I'm yet to actually get aboard an Antares but as we do a lot of cooking cupboard/fridge/worktop space is important.. I have looked at some Galley up designs and had (almost) concluded that you have to go for a much bigger boat to get the same amount of galley space as the Antares (its what put me off the Helia).
Personally I think the Xquisite X5 looks fabulous.. It looks "Xquisite" from the outside with minimal trip hazards on the foredeck and a semi protected helm. On the downside I'm not sure about the height of the bridgedeck and its design in general looks prone to "slapping" and common sense says that any products second hand value is negatively affected by manufacturer's stability.. and as I'm looking for a non charter "keeper" the Dean is a little risky for me in that regard.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:01   #147
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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I'm yet to actually get aboard an Antares but as we do a lot of cooking cupboard/fridge/worktop space is important.. I have looked at some Galley up designs and had (almost) concluded that you have to go for a much bigger boat to get the same amount of galley space as the Antares (its what put me off the Helia).
Personally I think the Xquisite X5 looks fabulous.. It looks "Xquisite" from the outside with minimal trip hazards on the foredeck and a semi protected helm. On the downside I'm not sure about the height of the bridgedeck and its design in general looks prone to "slapping" and common sense says that any products second hand value is negatively affected by manufacturer's stability.. and as I'm looking for a non charter "keeper" the Dean is a little risky for me in that regard.
I honestly felt that the space in most of the boats with Galley up was larger and more practical than the Antares. The long narrow layout did not work for me.

As for the Dean it is currently risky because we have yet to see any reports on the revised Xquisite X5 design. I have also failed to find any meaningful tests on the Dean 5000. On paper the D5000 at the show seamed good value at $1.1m with lots of equipment and toys. Its currently for sale and honestly looked in as new condition. Again no data to alleviate my nervousness at considering an untested boat.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:06   #148
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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Again no data to alleviate my nervousness at considering an untested boat.
What Are you thinking of? What are your priorities?
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:25   #149
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

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What Are you thinking of? What are your priorities?
Conceruns

New owners what will the build quality be like
how will she sail. I don't need high performance but I don't want a dog either
Have the design issues reported by some earlier Dean owners been resolved
what will the support be like

Just generally want others to be the guinea pigs.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:25   #150
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Re: Saba 50 vs Antares

Pretty much all the boats except the Balance 42 failed one of our requirements which is ventilation. Hardly any hatches in the salon and if there were hatches in the bunks they were either small or would only cool your feet. For anchoring in the tropics this is a must, but maybe most the boats were designed to have the Ac running
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