Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-01-2016, 16:16   #106
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Working in St Augustine
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,865
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Surely its not 7'6" fixed keels? Why would anyone buy a cat like that?

I really fail to see what possible advantage there could be to more than a 5' max draft on a 50' cat. If you need more lateral plane, just make the keels longer.
__________________
@mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2016, 20:59   #107
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
This thread is a great example of why the true cruisers either don't come here or have left recently!
Ahem, you're here Nancy.
ramblinrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2016, 21:11   #108
Registered User
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
Images: 69
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
You guys sometimes surprise me. It is a LeRouge design and LeRouge does not design condo cats. The Barramundi 470 weights only 14 100lbs and yes it does not have daggerboards but considerably deep keels for a cat with 7' 6".

Compare it with a Lagoon 47 that weights almost the double and has keels almost half the size (20 569lbs and 4'5" draft keels) and that even so carries a lot less sail upwind ( 1274sqft to 1540sqft).

Yes, I would say, like Eric LeRouge or their owners, that the Barramundi 470 is a performance cruising cat, a fast cat, not a condo cat and besides I thought that Lagoons and other condo cats sailed well upwind

I am surprised regarding your ignorance regarding Barramundi and yes, it is a fast cruising cat as it is common knowledge. The Barramundi has been substituted by Le Rouge by a derived design, the ViK, he says about the boat: "We therefore named Vik our updated range of fast cruising catamarans who prefer beautiful savage shores to crowded marinas."
Catamarans
The video proved - it's simply not a REALLY fast cat. Maybe not a "Condo" cat, maybe even a performance cruiser, but REALLY fast? No. Not even close.

My backyard build boat would be sailing at closer to 10 knots in the same conditions, and you know what? It's not a REALLY fast cat either.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2016, 23:44   #109
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,953
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Until someone defines "fast" I'm going to stock up on
To me and mine, 'fast' is anything beyond 6 knots
Rustic Charm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 04:28   #110
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The video proved - it's simply not a REALLY fast cat. Maybe not a "Condo" cat, maybe even a performance cruiser, but REALLY fast? No. Not even close.

My backyard build boat would be sailing at closer to 10 knots in the same conditions, and you know what? It's not a REALLY fast cat either.
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 04:44   #111
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Until someone defines "fast" I'm going to stock up on

6kn is fast on and optimist and 20kn is fast on a hobie 16 ⛵️
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 04:58   #112
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.
Polux my man, have you sailed a multi? Particularly the ones you are talking about?
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 05:27   #113
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Polux my man, have you sailed a multi? Particularly the ones you are talking about?
Even when the evidence is all clear regarding what I am saying:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.


You come with that kind of stuff. It is enough to have eyes, to know something about boat design to take clear conclusions about what is showed on the movie.

Maybe you want to detail what is wrong with my statements? It is not the Barramundi 470 a performance cat? It Is not the Amel Super Maramu a slow cruising heavy monohull sailboat? Did not the Amel sailed faster upwind than the Barramundi 470 fast?

After all what you do not agree with?
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 05:42   #114
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Simple question, not an aggressive one, have you sailed a multi of any sort, and if so what sort.
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 06:36   #115
CF Adviser

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,449
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

The original Manta and Solaris Sunstar 36 were also Lerouge designs and while great boats, no one would describe them as performance cruisers.
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 06:39   #116
Registered User
 
Wakey's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 104
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

C'mon guys. I've sailed (captained) exactly zero boats but I doubt that disqualifies my opinion on that race. Both were experienced sailors on very familiar boats. Let's not turn this thread into romper room.


Posted from my buggy iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum app
Wakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 07:33   #117
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Simple question, not an aggressive one, have you sailed a multi of any sort, and if so what sort.
Yes, a Leopard 45. It was incredibly slow and couldn't point to windward at all.

That said... It seems to me that people who buy catamarans love their boats for many reasons other that speed. People who buy monohulls love their boats as well, but always seem to envy the spacious accommodations the catamarans offer. The motion at sea... Different between the two boat. The motion at anchor... also different. Which is better? They each have advantages and disadvantages.

In the end... Who cares? To each their own. But I really can't understand why just a few catamaran owners seem so bothered about even discussing the matter?
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 09:42   #118
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,265
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Yes, a Leopard 45. It was incredibly slow and couldn't point to windward at all.



That said... It seems to me that people who buy catamarans love their boats for many reasons other that speed. People who buy monohulls love their boats as well, but always seem to envy the spacious accommodations the catamarans offer. The motion at sea... Different between the two boat. The motion at anchor... also different. Which is better? They each have advantages and disadvantages.



In the end... Who cares? To each their own. But I really can't understand why just a few catamaran owners seem so bothered about even discussing the matter?

I sailed an OI 41. It was also incredibly slow and couldn't point to windward, yet I realize there are performance monohulls as well as the slower cruiser, same as catamarans?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 09:57   #119
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,265
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
The original Manta and Solaris Sunstar 36 were also Lerouge designs and while great boats, no one would describe them as performance cruisers.

The Manta and Sunstar were built much heavier than Lerouge would have designed. I would consider the Azuli, Barramundi and Freydis as being performance cruisers, but then some have higher expectations of what a performance cruiser is.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2016, 11:47   #120
Registered User
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
Images: 69
Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.
You can rant all you like, but a cat that can only manage <9 knots in 15 knots at 60' is simply not a "really fast cat".
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue at the Mizzen... (may contain spoilers - discusses the ending of the series) beverley Fishing, Recreation & Fun 2 21-03-2014 07:05
S/V Delos...another super video installment Trim50 Monohull Sailboats 0 03-01-2014 20:03
Bundaberg to Cairns By S/V Delos Trim50 Pacific & South China Sea 1 22-10-2013 22:19
Delos ruins (near Mykonos) by private yacht Burls Europe & Mediterranean 4 28-06-2013 03:15
Cruising Cat vs. Cruising Mono Performance ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 100 03-01-2010 13:05

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.