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Old 23-01-2016, 17:16   #106
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Surely its not 7'6" fixed keels? Why would anyone buy a cat like that?

I really fail to see what possible advantage there could be to more than a 5' max draft on a 50' cat. If you need more lateral plane, just make the keels longer.
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Old 23-01-2016, 21:59   #107
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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This thread is a great example of why the true cruisers either don't come here or have left recently!
Ahem, you're here Nancy.
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Old 23-01-2016, 22:11   #108
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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You guys sometimes surprise me. It is a LeRouge design and LeRouge does not design condo cats. The Barramundi 470 weights only 14 100lbs and yes it does not have daggerboards but considerably deep keels for a cat with 7' 6".

Compare it with a Lagoon 47 that weights almost the double and has keels almost half the size (20 569lbs and 4'5" draft keels) and that even so carries a lot less sail upwind ( 1274sqft to 1540sqft).

Yes, I would say, like Eric LeRouge or their owners, that the Barramundi 470 is a performance cruising cat, a fast cat, not a condo cat and besides I thought that Lagoons and other condo cats sailed well upwind

I am surprised regarding your ignorance regarding Barramundi and yes, it is a fast cruising cat as it is common knowledge. The Barramundi has been substituted by Le Rouge by a derived design, the ViK, he says about the boat: "We therefore named Vik our updated range of fast cruising catamarans who prefer beautiful savage shores to crowded marinas."
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The video proved - it's simply not a REALLY fast cat. Maybe not a "Condo" cat, maybe even a performance cruiser, but REALLY fast? No. Not even close.

My backyard build boat would be sailing at closer to 10 knots in the same conditions, and you know what? It's not a REALLY fast cat either.
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Old 24-01-2016, 00:44   #109
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Until someone defines "fast" I'm going to stock up on
To me and mine, 'fast' is anything beyond 6 knots
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Old 24-01-2016, 05:28   #110
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The video proved - it's simply not a REALLY fast cat. Maybe not a "Condo" cat, maybe even a performance cruiser, but REALLY fast? No. Not even close.

My backyard build boat would be sailing at closer to 10 knots in the same conditions, and you know what? It's not a REALLY fast cat either.
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.
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Old 24-01-2016, 05:44   #111
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Until someone defines "fast" I'm going to stock up on

6kn is fast on and optimist and 20kn is fast on a hobie 16 ⛵️
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Old 24-01-2016, 05:58   #112
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.
Polux my man, have you sailed a multi? Particularly the ones you are talking about?
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Old 24-01-2016, 06:27   #113
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Polux my man, have you sailed a multi? Particularly the ones you are talking about?
Even when the evidence is all clear regarding what I am saying:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.


You come with that kind of stuff. It is enough to have eyes, to know something about boat design to take clear conclusions about what is showed on the movie.

Maybe you want to detail what is wrong with my statements? It is not the Barramundi 470 a performance cat? It Is not the Amel Super Maramu a slow cruising heavy monohull sailboat? Did not the Amel sailed faster upwind than the Barramundi 470 fast?

After all what you do not agree with?
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Old 24-01-2016, 06:42   #114
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Simple question, not an aggressive one, have you sailed a multi of any sort, and if so what sort.
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Old 24-01-2016, 07:36   #115
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

The original Manta and Solaris Sunstar 36 were also Lerouge designs and while great boats, no one would describe them as performance cruisers.
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Old 24-01-2016, 07:39   #116
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

C'mon guys. I've sailed (captained) exactly zero boats but I doubt that disqualifies my opinion on that race. Both were experienced sailors on very familiar boats. Let's not turn this thread into romper room.


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Old 24-01-2016, 08:33   #117
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Simple question, not an aggressive one, have you sailed a multi of any sort, and if so what sort.
Yes, a Leopard 45. It was incredibly slow and couldn't point to windward at all.

That said... It seems to me that people who buy catamarans love their boats for many reasons other that speed. People who buy monohulls love their boats as well, but always seem to envy the spacious accommodations the catamarans offer. The motion at sea... Different between the two boat. The motion at anchor... also different. Which is better? They each have advantages and disadvantages.

In the end... Who cares? To each their own. But I really can't understand why just a few catamaran owners seem so bothered about even discussing the matter?
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Old 24-01-2016, 10:42   #118
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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Yes, a Leopard 45. It was incredibly slow and couldn't point to windward at all.



That said... It seems to me that people who buy catamarans love their boats for many reasons other that speed. People who buy monohulls love their boats as well, but always seem to envy the spacious accommodations the catamarans offer. The motion at sea... Different between the two boat. The motion at anchor... also different. Which is better? They each have advantages and disadvantages.



In the end... Who cares? To each their own. But I really can't understand why just a few catamaran owners seem so bothered about even discussing the matter?

I sailed an OI 41. It was also incredibly slow and couldn't point to windward, yet I realize there are performance monohulls as well as the slower cruiser, same as catamarans?


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Old 24-01-2016, 10:57   #119
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

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The original Manta and Solaris Sunstar 36 were also Lerouge designs and while great boats, no one would describe them as performance cruisers.

The Manta and Sunstar were built much heavier than Lerouge would have designed. I would consider the Azuli, Barramundi and Freydis as being performance cruisers, but then some have higher expectations of what a performance cruiser is.


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Old 24-01-2016, 12:47   #120
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Re: S/V Delos discusses mono vs. cat with cruising couple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Talking about being biased: A sailboat with an upwind SA/D of 42 is not really fast!!!!

The Lagoon 470 has a SA/D of 27 and the Amel super Maramu 17

SA/D range of values:
16 to 18 Heavy offshore cruisers
18 to 22 Medium cruisers
22 to 26 Inshore cruisers, racing boats
26 to 30+ Extreme racing boats

The first time they sailed the Barramundi 470 they reached 18k with 15k wind.
Catamaran barramundi 470 FAST a 18 noeuds MAMBO - CNN iReport

Of course that was not upwind

What the video proved was that a Barramundi 470, a performance catamaran, upwind, in light conditions is slightly faster than a slow heavy monohull like the Amel Super Maramu and that with medium conditions the Amel is faster upwind.
You can rant all you like, but a cat that can only manage <9 knots in 15 knots at 60' is simply not a "really fast cat".
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