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Old 01-04-2009, 16:28   #16
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Good thread and amazing that it was all the way to the 13th post from Jim Cate for the right answer!!
Agree ... seeing the mast & rigging did help!
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Old 01-04-2009, 16:45   #17
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thanks everyone, this has been a very informative thread!

So - as I now understand things: yes, they're necessary, and it's sometimes useful to be able to move them, mostly to get them out of the way in light winds or put them in place to steady the mast when using the staysail.

currently though, they're not really in the way of the mainsail - it's mostly just the rigging of them that bugs me, the nuisance rope strung at deckhand-tripping-height across the deck to a cleat. The half-finished kit in the storage locker seems to only be two settings though - "on" or "off".

so yeah - the runners have to stay, but is the adjustable tension overkill or very necessary? can I fix them in place with an in-line release lever and do away with the rope and blocks?

frankly if the only reason to move them is to get them out of the way, and currently they're not really in the way - can I just fix them to the deck like a shroud?
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Old 01-04-2009, 17:21   #18
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Drew,
I wonder if you have sailed the boat much? From the pix it certainly looks like when sailing downwind with the mainsheet well eased and the boom out nearly perpendicular to the boat, the mainsail would be badly wrapped around a still-set leeward runner. This causes really bad chafe as well as spoiling the sail shape. So, you really need to slack off or remove that leeward runner... and you need to be able to tension the windward one every time you set it. This can be done with a multi-part purchase, or leading it to a winch, or with a mechanical device called a Hyfield (sp?) lever. The latter may be what you have found in your locker, so why not post a picture if it for us to look at?

On our boat we lead the runner tails through a 3:1 tackle and then through a Lewmar rope clutch and then to a secondary winch. After setting it up really tight, we take it off the winch and the clutch takes the strain and frees up the winch for other duties. Your setup won't require that much tension, though, and any of the above mentioned systems should work fine.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 01-04-2009, 17:50   #19
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Drew,
I wonder if you have sailed the boat much? From the pix it certainly looks like when sailing downwind with the mainsheet well eased and the boom out nearly perpendicular to the boat, the mainsail would be badly wrapped around a still-set leeward runner. This causes really bad chafe as well as spoiling the sail shape. So, you really need to slack off or remove that leeward runner... and you need to be able to tension the windward one every time you set it. This can be done with a multi-part purchase, or leading it to a winch, or with a mechanical device called a Hyfield (sp?) lever. The latter may be what you have found in your locker, so why not post a picture if it for us to look at?

On our boat we lead the runner tails through a 3:1 tackle and then through a Lewmar rope clutch and then to a secondary winch. After setting it up really tight, we take it off the winch and the clutch takes the strain and frees up the winch for other duties. Your setup won't require that much tension, though, and any of the above mentioned systems should work fine.
Hey Jim,

Guilty as charged. As I said, I am quite the n00b, and this is in fact my first "big" boat - so I probably have just not have noticed the overlap yet.

After googling and reading a bit, I do believe the half-finished project is indeed a set of highfield levers. I will take photos next time I'm out at the boat, which unfortunately isn't until early next week.

Thanks for putting up with my newbie questions, your answers are appreciated!
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Old 01-04-2009, 18:40   #20
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Drew, if you look at the cabin top on the center hull there is a SS fabrication, these runners may well have been there at one time, conjecture on my part.

When sailing broad the leeward runner is loosened, we use a bungy to tie it forward and it is held in place there.

Good luck,

Joli
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:22   #21
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I agree with all.

There is a flat foam fender hanging from what may be another tang forward of the present attachment. I recall seeing a tri with a sturdy fixed mast that had runners to stern of the ama, but was tensioned by pulling the runner from a more forward set of blocks. That kept the runners out of the main, which had little roach because of the backstay.

ps the only tri I've owned was a Super Tramp, a Farrier design imported from down under before the F-boats. It had running backstays.
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Old 08-08-2009, 05:45   #22
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i have a searunner 31 with the same or similar set up. the running backstays are kind of a pain. im about to rerig. what can i do to keep the cutter rig but get rid of the running back stays
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Old 13-08-2009, 21:57   #23
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I haven't rigged my 40 with running backs ......yet. I will, though, when I convert to the full cutter rig next year. The mast section in the 40 will pump in the right wind and sea conditions, affecting sail shape and drive. Stand on the cabintop, at the forward cabin. Place your hands on the mast and rhythmically pump the stick aft at two or three second intervals. You will feel the mast begin to shake slightly. Imagine, now, you are flying a genny in moderate seas, crashing and flying through the spray. Now imagine you are looking at the headstay. It won't be much of a straight line due to the inherent flexibility of the rig without the running staysail stay and the running backs. That's what they are for. When you at the dock, release them and pull them forward out of the way of folks boarding. Underway, tighten just the one that is under load, allowing the main to boom way out. Oh, and by the way, they make fabulous devices for retrieving a Lifesling or pulling a dink aboard. With the new synthetic lines that are being developed, running backs can be lightweight and easier to use.
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Old 13-08-2009, 22:51   #24
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The deal with the running backstays on Searunners is that it counters the force created when running the stays'l (not surprisingly on the running forestay) in the cutter orientation.

Drew23, your setup is somewhat cumbersome and the standard setup on Searunners is achieved with a lever attached on the ama which eliminates the line running to the cockpit. Yeah, you then have to get out of the cockpit to set the backstay but in practice it's no big deal in that being a cruiser you're not tacking every other minute on your way towards the windward mark. If I work on it I might be able to find a drawing of the standard setup.

As I recall this isn't the first deviation your boat has had from Searunner standard design. A lot of people tweak things and make changes with an improvement in mind but often in practice the result has more disadvantages than was intended.
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Old 13-08-2009, 22:59   #25
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My first searunner (37') Had the wire runners that came down to the outter deck edge then turned in across the deck and to a highfield lever. It was OK at the time. I much prefer the set up I have on the 34' now. A block and tackle with 7mm DUx for a set up. Eliminate the deck blocks and levers. It is actually rare to release these as a trimaran allows you such a broad base to work from, you are way outboard as it is. I belive with a mono your angle is much closer to the mainsail.
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