Robertson & Caine M-4500 (Leapord 45)

[CrJonny]

My wife and i have been looking for a comfortable cruiser for some extended offshore cruising with our 2 kids (4 and 7 year old girls). While still very unsure, it seems like the Crewed versions of the Leapord 45 might present a good value at the $300k mark.

Unfortunalty we cant find any unbiased info on the boat. We are wondering if anyone has any info to share.

Thanks in advance for any help.

John

[svcattales]

I'm not an expert by any definition, but I have looked at Leopards at boat shows. They look like a high end quality boat. Particularly like the fact that they use conventional prop shafts instead of saildrives...much simpler and cheaper mx. A friend just charterd an Island Spirit 40 in the BVI and also looked at some Leopard 38s coming out of charter. He likes the Leopards much better and is considering buying one. I've heard that delivery captains are a great source of info on cats. Might try to find some to talk to.

[CrJonny]

Hey Greg,

Thanks for sharing your insights, and your great idea for seeking out delivery captains. Im going to get right on it.

Thanks again
John

[Stingo]

Hope this helps...

Reliance Yachts do most of the deliveries of Leopards from Cape Town to the Carib

[BambooSailor]

Leopards are for sure built very well, but there are few things that I do not like about their design:
- very low bridgdeck clearance. They pound much more than french cats, e.g. Lagoon
- too much weight forward and aft
- not enough space aft between hulls for dinghy davits
- hulls do not have enough volume for good load carrying capacity

I do not know how important these features are for you, you have to make your decision. I'd suggest you go and charter the cat for a week to see what you like and what you do not. And no, charter in BVI will not reveal much of the cat's characteristics, try some other more challenging place in Caribbean. I recommend that you try Lagoon cat as well (e.g. 410), so you can compare. (There is a good review of Lagoon 410 in October issue of Bluewater Sailing magazine.)
Just my 1 cent...

[Harriet]

If I read this post correctly, you are looking at a Leopard 45 for approx. $300,000. How old is it? It is currently equipped for the type of cruising you plan to do?

I am only asking because the price seems quite low for that boat. If it will not require a lot of work/upgrades and it passes survey, I would grab it.

But I also agree with BambooSailor that chartering is the best way to determine how suitable any particular boat is for you.

[Tim Schaaf]

This thread is dated, but I could not resist as we did exactly what is asked about. in 2004 we bought a 1999 Leopard 45, from the Moorings crewed yacht fleet, for $305,000. It has been a great boat. We operate it as a crewed charter yacht, so live on it and work it year around. In the BVI crewed yacht community, the 45 is thought of as one of the great charter yachts.

In addition to sailing well and motoring well, it is particularly well organized for maintenance and is very strong. Can't say enough.

We have had her as far north as the Chesapeake, and as far south as Grenada. We have run under bare poles and hove to. She always exceeds expectations.

Yes, the Leopard 45 does pound some, but there are things you can do. In big winds we reef the jib first, for example, which seems to keep the leeward bow from being forced down into the water. Pounding is almost eliminated. Also , you can run with less than full water tanks.

We got a crewed yacht for the extra level of equipment and decor, and because we thought it would be in better shape than a bareboat, and we were right on all counts. I still recon a 45/47, used, is a much better buy than many of the boats discussed on this site.

[sailvi767]

Finding a Moorings 45 in the 300,000 range is easy. In fact the actual selling price on these boats is closer to 260,000 equiped as they leave the charter fleets. They will be more if they have had additional equipment added. For 300,000 you should be able to get a very nice one. The prices are low because of the huge number of boats the Moorings dumps on the market each year. The 4500 and early 4700's were very well built boats and sail well. When the first 4500 were coming out of the 5 year charter program at the moorings everyone was surprised at how well the boats surveyed and the overall condition. The Moorings however has seen a big shift in how they perform maintenance and boats leaving their fleet now are not near as good. There is a excellent hard top bimini mod available for them in the BVI. Overall these are great boats for the price.

[jzk]

For 300, you should be able to get a Leopard 47, as there are two available for under...

[jzk]

Originally Posted by sailvi767

The 4500 and early 4700's were very well built boats and sail well.

Is there anything wrong with the later model 4700s?

[henryv]

The 4700 is the same boat with 2 feet added to the sterns. The added length gets the back end out of the water.

[2Hulls]

John - I chartered a 4500 4 cabin version in Belize in 2002. It is well built and very comfortable at anchor. But it sails like a dog and is very wet forward in any kind of chop because it's so low. I couldn't get it above 7.5 knots in 20+ kts of wind. The best part was giving it back. These boats are fairly inexpensive now for a reason. Leopard ended this Simonis design and went with the new Melvin and Morrelli designs for a reason. Just my humble opinion.

Dave

[jzk]

Originally Posted by henryv

The 4700 is the same boat with 2 feet added to the sterns. The added length gets the back end out of the water.

The 4700 also has a generator, airconditioning and the salon table area is raised a bit to allow better visibility when sitting around it.

[kesey]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

John - I chartered a 4500 4 cabin version in Belize in 2002. It is well built and very comfortable at anchor. But it sails like a dog and is very wet forward in any kind of chop because it's so low. I couldn't get it above 7.5 knots in 20+ kts of wind. The best part was giving it back. These boats are fairly inexpensive now for a reason. Leopard ended this Simonis design and went with the new Melvin and Morrelli designs for a reason. Just my humble opinion.

Dave

And you're very much entitled to it. In mine, the Simonis design is by far the better. The 4200, 4300 and 4700 are superb boats. I've sailed the 4200, 4300 and 4500 - the 4200 most often. If things get rough, these boats will look after you. I've done 10 knots in the 4200. For sure they can be noisy going upwind in big seas - but they never give cause for concern. They are comfortable and good for long distance cruising and for short. Sure they will not win any races - but that is not what they were desined for.

Well done Alex Simonis say I.

fair winds,

kesey.

[Troutbridge]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

John - I chartered a 4500 4 cabin version in Belize in 2002. It is well built and very comfortable at anchor. But it sails like a dog and is very wet forward in any kind of chop because it's so low. I couldn't get it above 7.5 knots in 20+ kts of wind. The best part was giving it back. These boats are fairly inexpensive now for a reason. Leopard ended this Simonis design and went with the new Melvin and Morrelli designs for a reason. Just my humble opinion.

Dave

Well, I chartered one in the BVI in 2003. 20kts wind, downwind, jib only, an easy constant 9kts touching 11 periodically. I assume you're talking about going to windward? The sails were shot and it wasn't set up very well so it wasn't exactly an inspiring sail but I wouldn't describe it as sailing like a dog. It was wet fwd if you bashed into wind/swell, but who wants to do that if you don't have to?