Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

[Factor]

In the list of production boats built in Australia the 1000 and the 1160 are number 1 and 2. Number 3 is the northshore 38 mono. Seawind may not punch out as many boats as the french, but they are hardly low volume.

Said it before and I will say it again, owners set second hand prices - not dealers.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

This is really about market price not quality.
The Seawinds are a fairly low volume production boat which is in some demand in Australia.
If there were similar numbers of Seawinds produced as the French cats, prices would probably be more like the French boats.
If the Aussie boats were really that much better they would be in high demand all over the world even at premium prices.
They might even be still made in Australia.

If they produced as many boats as the major French builders the prices would probably be lower but then again the quality would probably suffer?

[Sand crab]

According to my super accurate tally Seawind has made just over 400 boats as of 2011. Oh, and thanks Factor for the help. Post #5
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ers-69895.html

[Dragon Lady]

So does that mean Seawind's quality is inferior to Lighwave because they make more boats?
I don't think volume it has anything to do with quality.

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by Factor

In the list of production boats built in Australia the 1000 and the 1160 are number 1 and 2. Number 3 is the northshore 38 mono. Seawind may not punch out as many boats as the french, but they are hardly low volume.

Said it before and I will say it again, owners set second hand prices - not dealers.

Big fish in a small pond, Factor
The Australian market is far removed from the rest of the world just look at the housing market.
Australian owners can set high prices and just sit and wait because they can afford to.
French charter companies do the real damage to French boat prices as they turn over the boats every 5 years and sell them off at low prices.
That and the exchange rate which has killed off the Aussie boat builders.
Still if they didn't do that bottom feeders like me wouldn't be able to buy a boat like that, so thank you French charter companies and the French government for subsidizing my boat purchase.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

thank you French charter companies and the French government for subsidizing my boat purchase.

Hear! Hear! ...and with a bit (a LOT, in our case!) of help from the GFC's impact on relative currency values.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

Big fish in a small pond, Factor
The Australian market is far removed from the rest of the world just look at the housing market.
Australian owners can set high prices and just sit and wait because they can afford to.
French charter companies do the real damage to French boat prices as they turn over the boats every 5 years and sell them off at low prices.
That and the exchange rate which has killed off the Aussie boat builders.
Still if they didn't do that bottom feeders like me wouldn't be able to buy a boat like that, so thank you French charter companies and the French government for subsidizing my boat purchase.

I have to wonder about some of these comments concerning Seawinds and other cats. Lots of the comments suggest to me those making them have never been on a Seawind and probably not on a French cat. There is really no compairson between the two.

To start with I am not aware of any Seawind that has more than one head while a lot of the French out of charter cats have four heads. The charter boats are also outfitted to go out for a couple of weeks or so and then head back to port to load up on beer and red meat and head out again. The out of charter boats are also under canvassed because of the expectation of not completely experienced sailors.

This is not to bash the French out of charter boats, just to say they are aimed at a different market than the Seawind. I have a Seawind 1000 with the stern extensions making it 36 feet and I can easily run away from Lagoons under 50 feet, not because I am a better sailor, but because of the way they are designed.

One of the Lagoons in the harbor has a generator, AC, hot water shower, and God knows what else while my Seawind has a Nature's Head and no hot water.

Trying to compare a Seawind to out of charter boats just seems silly to me. I would rather have a simple minimal boat I can do everything that needs to be done myself. The thought of four heads is a nightmare to me. On the other hand I understand why someone would want a genset for AC and hot water. Horses for courses.

[Le Doume]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I have to wonder about some of these comments concerning Seawinds and other cats. Lots of the comments suggest to me those making them have never been on a Seawind and probably not on a French cat. There is really no compairson between the two.

To start with I am not aware of any Seawind that has more than one head while a lot of the French out of charter cats have four heads. The charter boats are also outfitted to go out for a couple of weeks or so and then head back to port to load up on beer and red meat and head out again. The out of charter boats are also under canvassed because of the expectation of not completely experienced sailors.

This is not to bash the French out of charter boats, just to say they are aimed at a different market than the Seawind. I have a Seawind 1000 with the stern extensions making it 36 feet and I can easily run away from Lagoons under 50 feet, not because I am a better sailor, but because of the way they are designed.

One of the Lagoons in the harbor has a generator, AC, hot water shower, and God knows what else while my Seawind has a Nature's Head and no hot water.

Trying to compare a Seawind to out of charter boats just seems silly to me. I would rather have a simple minimal boat I can do everything that needs to be done myself. The thought of four heads is a nightmare to me. On the other hand I understand why someone would want a genset for AC and hot water. Horses for courses.

Hi there,
Time to get the blinkers off dear chap , or start reading some informative magazines , you will then discover what is known as " owner versions " or " maestro version" ( I know I do own one of them) that will put to rest the 4 heads issue for you.
Prior to moving from a monohull to a cat 3 years ago I did a reasonable amount of research and chartered both here and overseas , so YES I have sailed on a Seawind , and PLEAAAAASE do nor compare the level of finish and luxury between a Seawind and a French or SA built cat , there is NOTHING to compare , the only common denominator being that they have two hulls and they float , and as far as sailing performances are concerned , well let's not go there , since when did a sailing vessel with a self tacking jib is faster than a conventional overlapping headsail????!!!!, yes I agree Lagoon are slow and cumbersome which is why I did not buy one .
So happy sailing with your 1000 , glad to hear that you enjoy the " basics " one day though , do try a " real master suite with an island bed "

Cheers

Vivare non necesse est , Navigare necesse est

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Le Doume

Time to get the blinkers off dear chap...yes I agree Lagoon are slow and cumbersome which is why I did not buy one

mmm...and in the "blinkers off" category, a quick check of last year's ARC Results (accepted by many as the litmus test of performance for cruising vessels) we see Lagoons in 6 of the top 10 places (starting with #2, behind a Catana) and 11 of the top 16. The best FP was #7, altho we hasten to add we respect FP vessels (and sailed on many...and Seawinds...while we were searching for ours) so that we would never be so blinkered as to suggest FP vessels were slow.

We're not racers (anymore...left all that in a previous life, altho we can claim >30yrs racing) and we prefer enjoying a coffee or tea to constant trimming when underway, but we know from leaving many others behind that our vessel is certainly not "slow".

[cwjohm]

There seems to be a lot of confusion here as to what is compared to what. A Seawind 1000 is different to a 1160 and a 1250. A Maestro or Owners version boat is different to a charter boat. A modern French design is different to the older designs. One needs to define the actual comparisons one is making.

Having looked at many boats a modern (after 2010) Maestro or Owners Version French production boat is significantly superior to a 1000 and at least equivalent to a 1160 or 1250, when one compares equivalent lengths. Whilst at the same time for the moment the French boats represent significantly more value when one considers the price of both a new and second hand boat.

I am sure this is something that will correct in time, but right now in my view boats like the FP Mahe and Lipari represent excellent value, whilst the Seawinds, although excellent boats, seem to be for the moment overpriced.

[Coops]

I used to think that there were a couple of reasons that i never bought a Cat. The primary one being that I actually love the heeling and the motion in a sea of a mono. The second being prices over here are way over the top for them. But now there is a third. You guys are way more snippy about each other's boats than we half cat sailors are, and some of us are pretty blinkered as well.

Coops.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by tomfl

To start with I am not aware of any Seawind that has more than one head while a lot of the French out of charter cats have four heads. The charter boats are also outfitted to go out for a couple of weeks or so and then head back to port to load up on beer and red meat and head out again.

Please be clear about a couple of points. Firstly, this thread is about Seawind ELEVEN SIXTY prices, not weather an empty SW1000 is faster than an overloaded Lagoon 420 or whatever.

Secondly, every SW 1160 I have seen has 2 heads, not counting "nature's head". Which, by the way, is not recommended for safety and legal reasons, especially in crowded anchorages. Single head versions are probably available, but not that common. Despite the "French charter cat" put down label, often used by "real cruisers", most Fountaine Pajots sold in Australia are owners versions for private cruising use. Many, many Seawind 1160s are built and used for charter work in this country. So the idea that Seawinds are " real cruiser's boats" as opposed to "French charter cats" is rubbish.

Finally, the Seawind 1160 is different from similar sized French, American and S African cats. It's great to have a choice! There are advantages and disadvantages of each type. In my opinion, the new French boats such as FP and Lagoon have cutting edge design for cruising (not racing) giving seaworthiness, space and comfort at very competitive (subsidised?) prices. They are let down by what seems stupid corner cutting. Aluminium staunchion bases, brass shutoff valves, etc.
The SW1160 (and for that matter it's design "cousin", the Lightwave 38) are, by comparison, better built using better quality components. The two issues they suffer is higher pricing and old design. Most modern designers throughout the world have moved to flat side decks, wide saloons and a galley up option on 11 to 12 metre boats. Most modern designers have tried to provide a helm station that gives protection and a view ahead without the need to crane one's neck out to the cabin side or look through saloon windows. Lightwave have addressed this helm issue very well, but there is only so much chopping and modifying possible to what is essentially, an old Tony Grainger design.
Research and development costs are great. When amortised over a production run will drive up prices even more. Catch22

[ausaviator]

Indeed you are correct Coops, the mere mention of Seawinds on here usually brings out the worst in certain people. Those people know who they are.

[Jimbo485]

Originally Posted by Coops

You guys are way more snippy about each other's boats than we half cat sailors are, and some of us are pretty blinkered as well.

Coops.

This pub looks a bit rough, hey Coops? You and I have a couple of choices.

1. get ready for the all-in brawl. I see a couple of long necks on the table behind you. Pass me one, please, mate!
2. Back up against the wall, head for the exit and call 000 . They will need the police and multiple ambulances.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by tuskie

the Seawind 1160 is different from similar sized French, American and S African cats. It's great to have a choice! There are advantages and disadvantages of each type.

Very well put tuskie.

As for the OP, buying a vessel is almost inherently -- We can think of no exceptions -- a series of compromises. Price is one of those compromises that's shared between buyer and seller. If your heart is set on the 1160 -- We certainly agree it is an excellent vessel -- either keep looking for a more distressed seller or compromise a bit more on price. If you are a bit each way about the 1160, recognising its weaknesses as well as its many strengths, then cast your net wider over other vessel types to see whether there may be some other design/compromise that will bring your price point back to something within your range.

Either way, we wish you well in your search -- Take your time...being a boat buyer can be a hassle but it can also be fun! -- and fair winds and following seas always.