Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

[LostAtSea2011]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

And that is the reduced price????

Yeah....I wonder what the price was before.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Not sure it is worth twice a crappy Leopard, FP, or Lagoon though.

Ah but crazy Australians are happy to pay crazy prices in the perception of better things.

People we know have a just had launched a $2.4 millon 55ft "picnic" boat exclusively used for cruising up and down the Brisbane river at 10 -12 knots entertaining guests and drinking champagne on.
This to replace the 2 or 3 year old 50ft version of the same which is now on the market for $1.3 million.

We did tell them that for about $2 million dollars less we could put them into any number of near new vessels that would have done the job equally as well and leave the spare cash in the bank earning $100,000 a year but they just weren't interested.
Crazy huh

[Factor]

They are selling in Australia and getting pretty good dollars. In some cases, at least two in my personal experience selling the boats, the buyers could have got a new boat for not much more but didn't want to wait for delivery - approximately 10-12 months at that time. T%he factory attempts to track all second hand sales and has 25 years of data showing fairly high retained values, which in turn drives a demand for these boats on the used market, to an extent.

As to why people ask the prices they ask for anything they own, you would have to ask them. Anything is worth what you want to pay for it, no more - no less. There are alternatives worth considering in the Australian used market, particularly really good custom boats, there is one Pescott for example that looks a peach and from what I know was very very well built. But it wont suit everyone.

If you think a used one is expensive, you could always try pricing up a new one, delivered ex factory and spend a bit of time cruising home. Its an option that has been picked up recently by a couple of new buyers.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

It is interesting how its marketed as 1160 and most others are 38, 40, 42 etc, it sort of puts them in a class of their own until you realize that it's only 38ft.

Even the asking prices for second hand 1000 models are often more than Lagoon 38's.

They are not "marketed" as 1160, they are simply 11.6 metres long, its no gimmick, just a fact. Australia has been a metric country for - gee I dunno - 40 years or more, so our boats are sold according to their ACTUAL length. In metric terms. I mean I suppose we could call them XX cubits, but the fact is they are 11.6 metres long.

There are a number of boats that are marketed as 41, but are in fact 39 feet long, there is a 44 thats 42ft and bit long. I have often wondered about why the french builders describe their boats in feet, I suppose its that there big market is the US and they cater to it, and there is nothing wrong with that, it would be nice if their descriptions matched their length however.

[ausaviator]

Branded as "1160" whereas most of the rest of the world uses ft which is easier for comparative purposes.

The Seawind 1000 wih 10hp outboards fills a great niche in the market for a roomy weekender but I don't think I'd spruke over $200k for an old used one which seems to be the going rate at the moment.

[Auzzee]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Are the seawinds in Australia and the FP's etc in the states?
Look to the economies of these two areas for the answer.
Muppets in Australia have been happy to pay 100% more for damn near everything for so long, but things are changing.

I hope things aren't changing!

The 'muppets' are those who kept the Oz economy strong through recessions, depressions and the GFC which have affected the rest of the world and which were largely conceived by the 'clever people' operating in the me-first, biggest free market economy in the world.

The 'muppets' continue to be immune from the economic disasters, the latest of which sees Oz a long, long way back from the rim of the abyss, which is now known as the financial cliff.

Unless you are determined to see Australia charge down the same path as those who will screw their economy over just to save a buck, pay the money and benefit from the financial strength imparted
through Muppenomics.

[Factor]

As a matter of law - See Part 2, National Measurement Act, which, along with the rest of the Act and REgulation and Guidelines , requires our stipulation of length in terms of metres. Below is a useful summary of what the Act means.

The National Measurement Act prescribes that 'Australian legal units of measurement of a physical quantity are the sole legal units of measurement of that physical quantity' and Schedules 1, 2 and 3 of the National Measurement Regulations prescribe those Australian legal units of measurement, namely:

• SI base units of measurement (kilogram, mole, metre, second, candela, kelvin and ampere) – Schedule 1, Part 1
• SI derived units of measurement with special names – Schedule 1, Part 2
• non-SI units of measurement used with SI units of measurement – Schedule 1, Part 3
• additional derived units of measurement – Schedule 1, Part 4
• additional legal units of measurement (and the purposes for which they may be used) – Schedule 2, Parts 1 and 2

[smj]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

Branded as "1160" whereas most of the rest of the world uses ft which is easier for comparative purposes.

The Seawind 1000 wih 10hp outboards fills a great niche in the market for a roomy weekender but I don't think I'd spruke over $200k for an old used one which seems to be the going rate at the moment.

Roomy weekender? Damn I wish someone would have told myself and my wife before we lived aboard and cruised for a year! Oh well, maybe when I become rich I can afford the boat you have. By the way, what kind of boat do you have?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by ausaviator

Branded as "1160" whereas most of the rest of the world uses ft which is easier for comparative purposes.

Actually, much of the rest of the world is metric too. And is it really that hard to do the conversion?

For comparative purposes, it might help if some of the other brands
used number which actually bore some semblance to the boats actual length (in ANY units) too.

[tuskie]

The Australian market for ANYTHING, can't be easily compared to US or European markets. So any boat price comparison must be done on the same market. Many "cheap" boats listed on the Australian market are actually located overseas.

Why the Australian market is more buoyant is not because we Aussies are "muppets". Where did you get that from, American TV? The Aussie word is "Drongo". Please mate, speak the language! Australia is fortunate in that we have not had the same number of forced sales that drop market prices here. Our economy is in better shape because the Chinese are paying us for our resources and lingering "socialist" government controls over our banks largely prevented them gambling public money in the greedfest that became the GFC. We are lucky, so far, but not a mob of drongos.

So, why are Seawind 1160s so expensive on the Australian market? Well, all boats are comparatively expensive on the Australian market, especially if you look at asking prices for Australian located catamarans. As mentioned, many 1160s with ridiculous prices are not selling.

I can't give an indicative selling price for, say a 2005 model 1160, perhaps Factor could? However, the same size (larger?) Lagoon 380 ex charter in very sound condition recently sold in Brisbane under the hammer for A$160k + 8% commission. There are much more expensive Lagoon 380s listed on the Australian market. They may be better boats, but the are not attracting the premium asking price.

Perhaps those expensive Aussie boats aren't really for sale? Unachievable high prices may keep the wife happy that the boat is being sold, but it isn't, and keep the dealer happy to point out the "high" second hand prices to prospective buyers.

Now Cat Man Do, that's not being a drongo?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by tuskie

The Australian market for ANYTHING, can't be easily compared to US or European markets. So any boat price comparison must be done on the same market. Many "cheap" boats listed on the Australian market are actually located overseas.

All depends on whether or not you think Australia is part of the world or not.
I have no issue buying from and living in other parts of the world, especially when prices are considerably cheaper for the same product

Australia is fortunate in that we have not had the same number of forced sales that drop market prices here. Our economy is in better shape because the Chinese are paying us for our resources

We are a one trick pony.
Ever heard of Dutch Disease? Sound Familiar?
What happens when mines in South Africa, Mongolia, South America etc etc etc are up and running and the companies no longer have to pay $150,000 / year for truck drivers etc?

As for our economy, where did the money from all this mining go?
Where is our high speed rail? Where is the spending on actual infrastructure instead of wasting money on ceiling batts, add on's to schools at several times normal price and handing bogans $1000 to piss up against the wall at the leagues club and buying a new TV from China?

and lingering "socialist" government controls over our banks largely prevented them gambling public money in the greedfest that became the GFC. We are lucky , so far,

Yes, we are lucky in that respect, so far

but not a mob of drongos.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Like I said, there are no shortage of muppets (drongos) paying way more what an items intrinsic value is.
Look at cars, boats and arguably housing for evidence of this.
At least with housing you can somewhat blame fees, taxes and wages in Australia for high prices.
Cars and boats on the other hand are mostly built in countries with cheap labour (seawind vietnam) yet prices pretty much remain the same.

So, why are Seawind 1160s so expensive on the Australian market? Well, all boats are comparatively expensive on the Australian market, especially if you look at asking prices for Australian located catamarans. As mentioned, many 1160s with ridiculous prices are not selling.

But prices are getting smacked down as you mention in your very next sentence.

Lagoon 380 ex charter in very sound condition recently sold in Brisbane under the hammer for A$160k + 8% commission.

I am seeing powercats asking considerably less than what they were asking 2 or 3 years ago and they are still not selling.
Looks like prices are coming off to me and some sellers just haven't cottoned on yet.
Deflation?

[Coops]

It has taken a while, but yes, prices are falling rapidly for boats over here. Not before time either, it used to be that a boat was a fixed price regardless of condition and if it was a good one it just sold quicker. Now, you can see a lot of bargains around so to think that you will not lose on a boat at the moment is a fool's paradise i am afraid.

In case you think that i do not have any particular knowledge of this, i follow boat prices very closely, have done for 40 years, and work in a chandlery so deal with folks who all say the same thing. Difficult to move anything no matter what end of the market we are talking about.

Coops.

[ausaviator]

Roomy weekender? Damn I wish someone would have told myself and my wife before we lived aboard and cruised for a year! Oh well, maybe when I become rich I can afford the boat you have. By the way, what kind of boat do you have?

The 1000 quite obviously is a great boat for what you want Factor and I'm glad that you are happy with it. It's great be be passionate about your own yacht and clearly you are exactly that about your own pride and joy.

As for my boat? It doesn't matter what I have, it would never be good enough to compare to yours. One thing is for sure though, diesel engines and an enclosed saloon are must-haves for a live aboard in my world.

One thing I will be sure on though is to convert 46ft to metric for you when posting in the future.

PS: Please don't send me any more of your PM's after this discussion, I don't enjoy cleaning out my inbox from my iPhone.

[ausaviator]

Australia is not very smart. Most of our resources are being sold overseas so they can make cheap products. Soon there will be none left and we will be in trouble and will have to buy it back from South America at inflated prices. It can't last forever.

If you Americans can please keep your economy happy then we won't get hit with a domino. As much as I enjoy buying from your country with a conversion of 1.10 or higher, we all know it's not a good thing for everyone.

[Factor]

Quote:Roomy weekender? Damn I wish someone would have told myself and my wife before we lived aboard and cruised for a year! Oh well, maybe when I become rich I can afford the boat you have. By the way, what kind of boat do you have?

- by aus aviator
The 1000 quite obviously is a great boat for what you want Factor and I'm glad that you are happy with it. It's great be be passionate about your own yacht and clearly you are exactly that about your own pride and joy.

That quote was from SMJ not me.

by ausaviator
PS: Please don't send me any more of your PM's after this discussion, I don't enjoy cleaning out my inbox from my iPhone.

Havent sent you a PM in months - so if you are getting some from me - then someone has hacked my account