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Old 09-03-2013, 00:33   #196
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
If you're not interested in buying one, why would you give a rat's arse what they cost? D
So, everyone on this thread really wants to buy a Seawind 1160? Otherwise, they wouldn't give a rat's.

The owner of DILLIGARA will be pleased! Factor will explain.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:27   #197
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[QUOTE="D&
5. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We love flat decks and vertical windows; to us they look superb and very seaworthy, from both inside and out![/QUOTE]

I reckon you would be in a minority on that last point :-)
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Old 10-03-2013, 00:50   #198
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Please be clear about a couple of points. Firstly, this thread is about Seawind ELEVEN SIXTY prices, not weather an empty SW1000 is faster than an overloaded Lagoon 420 or whatever.

Secondly, every SW 1160 I have seen has 2 heads, not counting "nature's head". Which, by the way, is not recommended for safety and legal reasons, especially in crowded anchorages. Single head versions are probably available, but not that common. Despite the "French charter cat" put down label, often used by "real cruisers", most Fountaine Pajots sold in Australia are owners versions for private cruising use. Many, many Seawind 1160s are built and used for charter work in this country. So the idea that Seawinds are " real cruiser's boats" as opposed to "French charter cats" is rubbish.

Finally, the Seawind 1160 is different from similar sized French, American and S African cats. It's great to have a choice! There are advantages and disadvantages of each type. In my opinion, the new French boats such as FP and Lagoon have cutting edge design for cruising (not racing) giving seaworthiness, space and comfort at very competitive (subsidised?) prices. They are let down by what seems stupid corner cutting. Aluminium staunchion bases, brass shutoff valves, etc.
The SW1160 (and for that matter it's design "cousin", the Lightwave 38) are, by comparison, better built using better quality components. The two issues they suffer is higher pricing and old design. Most modern designers throughout the world have moved to flat side decks, wide saloons and a galley up option on 11 to 12 metre boats. Most modern designers have tried to provide a helm station that gives protection and a view ahead without the need to crane one's neck out to the cabin side or look through saloon windows. Lightwave have addressed this helm issue very well, but there is only so much chopping and modifying possible to what is essentially, an old Tony Grainger design.
Research and development costs are great. When amortised over a production run will drive up prices even more. Catch22
Very true!!!
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:12   #199
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Secondly, every SW 1160 I have seen has 2 heads, not counting "nature's head". Which, by the way, is not recommended for safety and legal reasons, especially in crowded anchorages. Single head versions are probably available, but not that common.
Only available on special order - none exist so far.

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The SW1160 (and for that matter it's design "cousin", the Lightwave 38) are, by comparison, better built using better quality components.
No quite sure I understand that - Firstly let me acknowledge that Roger Overall and the Lightwave team build a very good boat. But as for design, the Lightwave is a Grainger Design, the Seawind is not, it is an in house collaborative design lead by the MD of Seawind Richard Ward. If there was a deigner that had influence in the past - it may have been Scott Jutson, but certainly Tony had no input to the 1160/1250 or 1000.

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old design.
I dont get that one. The Seawind 1160 is a 7 year old design.

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Most modern designers throughout the world have moved to flat side decks, wide saloons and a galley up option on 11 to 12 metre boats.
Seawind will do a galley up on the 1250, but counsel against it. Its up to the customer but we try and demonstrate why is not preferable at sea.

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Most modern designers have tried to provide a helm station that gives protection and a view ahead without the need to crane one's neck out to the cabin side or look through saloon windows.
The boats you refer to have helms that are predominantly off centre. I think I am not too bad a sailor, but I can't sail a boat well from the leeward side.

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Lightwave have addressed this helm issue very well, but there is only so much chopping and modifying possible to what is essentially, an old Tony Grainger design.
The helm on the 38/45 is probably the only thing I dont like about the boat. I took a 45 to Sydney a number of years ago, and getting up and down to the God Pod got old very quickly. Particularly in a bouncy sea

The seawind design starts from the outside in, what works as a sailing boat first, then what works as accommodation after that.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:46   #200
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Much is opinion but mine would be:

2. Excellent visibility
If you are 5 ft tall :-)
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:17   #201
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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But as for design, the Lightwave is a Grainger Design, the Seawind is not, it is an in house collaborative design lead by the MD of Seawind Richard Ward. If there was a deigner that had influence in the past - it may have been Scott Jutson, but certainly Tony had no input to the 1160/1250 or 1000.

I dont get that one. The Seawind 1160 is a 7 year old design.
Correct me again if I'm wrong, but according to my records the Seawind 1160 was "launched" at the Sydney International Boat Show in July 2004. That would make it's design at least 9 years old. In design terms, not young. So,yes, old.

Reading reviews published at the time (read "Cruising Helmsman" Dec 2004) I'm not the only person to recognise a distinct resemblance in design cues to the boat it replaced, the "Seawind 1200" a Tony Grainger design, if I'm not mistaken again. Tony Grainger did not design the SW1160 for sure, but his design cues are clearly there. Lets just say his old designs have "clearly inspired" the design of the SW1160. Seawind spruiked about its "all new design" when the 1160 was released, but then they did the same when the SW1250 was released. Perhaps I'm the only person who thinks this one is simply a SW1160 mould "cut and stretched" and not really new, either.
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:24   #202
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

You seem to have a very good memory Tuskie. Helps sort the s-hit from the clay.
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:30   #203
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

Nah mate, just keep old magazines.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:25   #204
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

There is little similarity between the 1200 (- still a good boat, much like the Lightwwave 38 which is in fact a grainger design) and the 1160. But yes you are right on the years - I keep forgetting its 2013 already. The visibility is much higher on the 1160, the helm positions are different the internal layout is different the sail plan and rig are different. Most importantly the hull shapes are very very very different.

Here is an idea - ask Tony if the 1160 is his or indeed has any of his signature features.

BTW Thanks for your usual "I hate Seawind" input as well there space cadet.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:41   #205
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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BTW Thanks for your usual "I hate Seawind" input as well there space cadet.
It's disappointing Andrew when one has to resort to name calling. I sure as heck will never buy a boat from you.

Hate Seawinds? I simply commented that you need to be 5ft to enjoy the visibility, particularly through the salon windows.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:49   #206
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Maybe I'm wrong but the 1160 looks a lot like the 1000xl not a Grainger design.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:17   #207
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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It's disappointing Andrew when one has to resort to name calling. I sure as heck will never buy a boat from you.

Hate Seawinds? I simply commented that you need to be 5ft to enjoy the visibility, particularly through the salon windows.
I wonder if you will ever in fact buy a boat. But more importantly I am 194 cms, I have no trouble seeing out of the 1160, including though the saloon windows. I dont know where you get the 5ft thing, you ever been on an 1160?
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:01   #208
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
Correct me again if I'm wrong, but according to my records the Seawind 1160 was "launched" at the Sydney International Boat Show in July 2004. That would make it's design at least 9 years old. In design terms, not young. So,yes, old.

Reading reviews published at the time (read "Cruising Helmsman" Dec 2004) I'm not the only person to recognise a distinct resemblance in design cues to the boat it replaced, the "Seawind 1200" a Tony Grainger design, if I'm not mistaken again. Tony Grainger did not design the SW1160 for sure, but his design cues are clearly there. Lets just say his old designs have "clearly inspired" the design of the SW1160. Seawind spruiked about its "all new design" when the 1160 was released, but then they did the same when the SW1250 was released. Perhaps I'm the only person who thinks this one is simply a SW1160 mould "cut and stretched" and not really new, either.
Thanks for listing the article, I hadn't seen that one before. Always fun to see early press on the 1160.
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Old 11-03-2013, 14:34   #209
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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I reckon you would be in a minority on that last point :-)
Maybe, but as God said to the builder of Harley Davidson motorcycles when the builder complained about the design flaws on the female body -- It's from an old joke -- ..."I reckon more people are riding on my designs than on yours!"
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Old 11-03-2013, 14:46   #210
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Maybe, but as God said to the builder of Harley Davidson motorcycles when the builder complained about the design flaws on the female body -- It's from an old joke -- ..."I reckon more people are riding on my designs than on yours!"

...and a thousand apologies to everyone else for that egregious (but hopefully slightly amusing!?) thread drift...
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