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Old 07-03-2013, 16:57   #166
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Originally Posted by tuskie View Post

Please be clear about a couple of points. Firstly, this thread is about Seawind ELEVEN SIXTY prices, not weather an empty SW1000 is faster than an overloaded Lagoon 420 or whatever.

Secondly, every SW 1160 I have seen has 2 heads, not counting "nature's head". Which, by the way, is not recommended for safety and legal reasons, especially in crowded anchorages. Single head versions are probably available, but not that common. Despite the "French charter cat" put down label, often used by "real cruisers", most Fountaine Pajots sold in Australia are owners versions for private cruising use. Many, many Seawind 1160s are built and used for charter work in this country. So the idea that Seawinds are " real cruiser's boats" as opposed to "French charter cats" is rubbish.

Finally, the Seawind 1160 is different from similar sized French, American and S African cats. It's great to have a choice! There are advantages and disadvantages of each type. In my opinion, the new French boats such as FP and Lagoon have cutting edge design for cruising (not racing) giving seaworthiness, space and comfort at very competitive (subsidised?) prices. They are let down by what seems stupid corner cutting. Aluminium staunchion bases, brass shutoff valves, etc.
The SW1160 (and for that matter it's design "cousin", the Lightwave 38) are, by comparison, better built using better quality components. The two issues they suffer is higher pricing and old design. Most modern designers throughout the world have moved to flat side decks, wide saloons and a galley up option on 11 to 12 metre boats. Most modern designers have tried to provide a helm station that gives protection and a view ahead without the need to crane one's neck out to the cabin side or look through saloon windows. Lightwave have addressed this helm issue very well, but there is only so much chopping and modifying possible to what is essentially, an old Tony Grainger design.
Research and development costs are great. When amortised over a production run will drive up prices even more. Catch22
Number one, a Seawind 1000 loaded for cruising will blow the doors of a lightly loaded Lagoon 420. In fact our old Seawind 1000, now owned by Tomfl sailed past a loaded F-27 in light airs.
Number two, why do you say the Natureshead is t recommended for safety and legal reasons? Perfectly legal here in the US emitting no wastes in the water and the safety reason? No they don't come with nonskid on the seat but does yours?
Number 3, all your "new design ideas" cover liveaboard comforts, nothing concerning performance. And the protection and the visibility as well as the ease to reach the sail controls on the Seawind are the best I've seen. From my viewpoint the Seawind doesn't need to be modernized as they got the hull design right the first time. Not only that, we owned two mid nineties Seawind 1000's and still got service, free parts and the owner of Seawind would answer our questions. Do you get that with the larger production boats.
Don't get me wrong. There's a place on the water for all boats. At this point in my life I really enjoy the performance, layout and build quality of the Seawind. When I get older i may enjoy the larger and more commodious ex-charter boat. I'm just not there yet.
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Old 07-03-2013, 16:59   #167
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Indeed you are correct Coops, the mere mention of Seawinds on here usually brings out the worst in certain people. Those people know who they are.
Don't be jealous Ausaviator we'll happily let you into the Seawind club if you'd like:-)
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Old 07-03-2013, 17:25   #168
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

SMJ, I'll try to be succinct.

1. The thread is about 1160 prices, not SW1000 speed.
2. SW1160s have multiple heads, like most other cats.
3. Pissing over the side is dangerous. Ask most experienced skippers. Most men drowned off boats have their fly down. That's why you need heads.
4. If you expose yourself in a crowded anchorage, you may upset someone and possibly get a visit from the police. (Sorry, the "nature's head" subject was a distraction.)
5. If you like old designs, great. Good designs are said to be timeless, like my old VW Combi and the Citroen DS23 that I once owned, but they are OLD designs that are no longer commercially viable.
6. I beg to differ on the SW1160 helm protection and visibility matter.
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Old 07-03-2013, 17:31   #169
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SMJ, I'll try to be succinct.

1. The thread is about 1160 prices, not SW1000 speed.
2. SW1160s have multiple heads, like most other cats.
3. Pissing over the side is dangerous. Ask most experienced skippers. Most men drowned off boats have their fly down. That's why you need heads.
4. If you expose yourself in a crowded anchorage, you may upset someone and possibly get a visit from the police. (Sorry, the "nature's head" subject was a distraction.)
5. If you like old designs, great. Good designs are said to be timeless, like my old VW Combi and the Citroen DS23 that I once owned, but they are OLD designs that are no longer commercially viable.
6. I beg to differ on the SW1160 helm protection and visibility matter.
I would agree with you on a few of those points. What I don't agree on is the Naturehead. It is a marine head that holds both urine and solids, no peeing over the side needed! As far as the Seawind being an old design and no longer commercially viable....not yet at least. You are right this is a thread on the 1160 and I was straying of topic, my apologies.
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Old 07-03-2013, 17:35   #170
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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Don't be jealous Ausaviator we'll happily let you into the Seawind club if you'd like:-)
Think Ausaviator was more thirsty than jealous...and we'll now look for whatever bar he/she and Coops are in to join them while we all ignore the thread drift and watch the fierce defensive remarks around the Seawind 1000.

After sailing several of them, we happily agree the Seawind 1000 is indeed a well designed and built vessel. Some of the attributes being suggested here, however, are bordering on 'it's just perfect'... To again embrace tuskie's response we "beg to differ" on several of the subjective conclusions, but we will not further the thread drift with point-by-point remarks.

So back to the bar to watch here ...and 'cheers!' to Ausaviator and Coops!! Care to join us tuskie?
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:01   #171
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Think Ausaviator was more thirsty than jealous...and we'll now look for whatever bar he/she and Coops are in to join them while we all ignore the thread drift and watch the fierce defensive remarks around the Seawind 1000.

After sailing several of them, we happily agree the Seawind 1000 is indeed a well designed and built vessel. Some of the attributes being suggested here, however, are bordering on 'it's just perfect'... To again embrace tuskie's response we "beg to differ" on several of the subjective conclusions, but we will not further the thread drift with point-by-point remarks.

So back to the bar to watch here ...and 'cheers!' to Ausaviator and Coops!! Care to join us tuskie?
D&D your also welcome to join the Seawind club. The more the merrier!
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:06   #172
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

SMJ, My apologies! When Tomfl mentioned "nature"s head", I understood that he mean't "over the side" as happens on many race boats. I realise now that you and he mean't the "NatureHead" composting toilet.

D&D. I rarely knock back the opportunity to knock off a few beers. Is the bar on the Lagoon 440? Next to the jacuzzi and opposite the sauna? Those hedonistic Lagoons! Cheers
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:34   #173
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

Well after muddling through all 5 pages, the only thing that struck me was one persons affinity for outboards over diesels. Just remember you will replace those gas outboards every 2000 hrs(according to yamaha 4 stroke service manual), at which point corrosion will make rebuilding of negligable value. A diesel will run many times that amount and then be totally rebuildable.
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:44   #174
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SMJ, My apologies! When Tomfl mentioned "nature"s head", I understood that he mean't "over the side" as happens on many race boats. I realise now that you and he mean't the "NatureHead" composting toilet.

D&D. I rarely knock back the opportunity to knock off a few beers. Is the bar on the Lagoon 440? Next to the jacuzzi and opposite the sauna? Those hedonistic Lagoons! Cheers
No problem Tuskie. I guess I get worked up about two products that I really believe in, the Seawind and Natureshead!
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Old 07-03-2013, 18:47   #175
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Well after muddling through all 5 pages, the only thing that struck me was one persons affinity for outboards over diesels. Just remember you will replace those gas outboards every 2000 hrs(according to yamaha 4 stroke service manual), at which point corrosion will make rebuilding of negligable value. A diesel will run many times that amount and then be totally rebuildable.
There are many charter companies getting 3-5 thousand hours out of their 4-stroke outboards. Six of one half a dozen of another. On a performance cat the outboards will reduce drag to where the engines are hardly used.
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Old 07-03-2013, 19:29   #176
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

Glad to see that you all retain your sense of humour, good to note. Being as long necks are glass, and therefore not allowed on my boats I will raise a tinnie to you all for the entertainment and a rum to the ones who can laugh about it afterwards.

Coops.
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Old 07-03-2013, 20:09   #177
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

Drinking beer from a can!
Now you are really lowering the bar! LOL

Top comments Tuskie, keep em coming this tread has turned into a real hoot!
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Old 07-03-2013, 20:22   #178
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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D&D your also welcome to join the Seawind club. The more the merrier!
Thanks for the invite smj

We enjoy many friendly associations at all levels within the Seawind organisation. We hold both the organisation and the vessels in high regard.

In the process of ~4years of searching for our vessel, we looked very closely at joining your club. We charted, test-sailed and enjoyed friendly sail outings on numerous Seawinds, including Richard Ward's own 1250 after going out with him and others around Sydney Heads when his vessel was for sale...and, relevant to this thread, several 1160's as well!

Of course our eventual decision not to join your club was for our own reasons. Those reasons are numerous, some effectively excluding the Seawinds and some not...and perhaps none along the lines of some of the comments in this thread. More importantly though, none of our reasons are really relevant to this thread!

Horses for courses. We are delighted you are happy with your Seawind...and we wish the OP all the best in his/her search!
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Old 07-03-2013, 20:38   #179
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Re: Ridiculous Seawind 1160 Prices

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D&D. I rarely knock back the opportunity to knock off a few beers. Is the bar on the Lagoon 440? Next to the jacuzzi and opposite the sauna? Those hedonistic Lagoons! Cheers
Thanks tuskie. Even (or especially!?!) at our age, surely "hedonistic" should be taken as a compliment.

Our Lagoon, however, is probably a bit spartan with no air-conditioning, no dishwasher, no washing machine and certainly no jacuzzi or sauna...altho there's 2 frig's and a big freezer so cold drinks are ALWAYS available!

Look out for our 'Splice The Mainbrace' flags (Splice The Mainbrace Flags, Floating Impressions )

when we're nearby as a sign that the bar's open!

Oops...apolgies everyone for that flagrant thread drift...
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Old 07-03-2013, 20:50   #180
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Thanks for the invite smj

We enjoy many friendly associations at all levels within the Seawind organisation. We hold both the organisation and the vessels in high regard.

In the process of ~4years of searching for our vessel, we looked very closely at joining your club. We charted, test-sailed and enjoyed friendly sail outings on numerous Seawinds, including Richard Ward's own 1250 after going out with him and others around Sydney Heads when his vessel was for sale...and, relevant to this thread, several 1160's as well!

Of course our eventual decision not to join your club was for our own reasons. Those reasons are numerous, some effectively excluding the Seawinds and some not...and perhaps none along the lines of some of the comments in this thread. More importantly though, none of our reasons are really relevant to this thread!

Horses for courses. We are delighted you are happy with your Seawind...and we wish the OP all the best in his/her search!
And as I said, maybe one of these days maybe I will join the Lagoon club!
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