Researching Cats

[k-bob]

I've been reading about Gemimi 105's. Seems like a lot of boat for the money however, it seems to break all the rules I've been reading about such as 50% beam to length ratio, low weight in bow (it has solid bow, no nets), low bridge deck clearance. Does anyone know how they compensate for these supposed "negatives" in their design, or do they? or are they really negatives? Thanks.

[Factor]

Have a look at SLAPDASH website - they seem to be doing all right crossing oceans in their Gemini, not my choice - but they are having fun

Just search for slapdash and gemini

[k-bob]

Factor,
Thanks for the info. Actually, I have seen and read about Slapdash and their blog. I also know that the Gemini designer (I think his name is Tony Smith) took one across the Atlantic and there is a you tube video on that. So the cat is capable of ocean crossings.

[drparr]

Hi, yes i agree with the calcs ref beam stability etc, it is also important to consider all other areas too. Prout cats are another example of an exellent sea boat with a relatively narrow beam. Have fun researching ?

[Cotemar]

k-bob,

You may want to bump up in size just a little and eliminate all of the concerns.
The vast majority of production cats have 50% beam to lengh and 28 inch or more of bridge deck clearance. If you are going to just coastal cruise, than any cat will do.

For off shore cruising you may get worn down fairly quickly in that design boat.

[Mark Johnson]

IF you want a truly seaworthy "bluewater" catamaran that can take you most anywhere, AND go to windward, even in a gale, without eventually incurring structural damage:

You need the beam determined by optimal stability, rather than what fits into a marina slip.

You need REALLY good wing clearance... (More than 2' is a minimum).

You need relatively low windage, relatively low height, relatively small cabin structures, with good walkways forward and a low COG. This usually means less accommodations on smaller boats.

You need more netting over "open sections" on the bow, and less solid wing deck.

You need to minimize weight on the boat, and especially the bow.

You need a balanced, easily controlled/reefed sail plan, with full 360 degree visibility from the helm... even with the jib up.

And, you certainly need to see the four corners of the boat when docking!

People do have successful cruises on less seaworthy boats than described above, but NOT year in year out, without taking their boat's shortcomings into account. Getting lucky doesn't hold up forever, as "Murphy" takes no prisoners!
If one has a boat that doesn't have these basic "common sense" requirements, then I suggest that they take this into account in deciding their destinations, time of year, weather, "running room" to deal with squalls, safety equipment, marina options, etc.

What you can NOT do is pound a "low wing clearance" multihull hard to windward, in 40 knots of wind and chaotic seas, over a long period of time. That horrendous pounding is more than a matter of aesthetics, it's the sound of your boat eventually coming apart. I have seen and/or worked on dozens of multis that were damaged from NOT taking this seriously enough.

Match the design of your boat to the conditions you will encounter, or sail and plan VERY prudently. (Fall off, run, wait out bad weather, etc.)

Best regards,
Mark

[cyclepro]

If you are interested in a Gemini you might want to join the following Yahoo group (you don't have to own one):

Gemini_Cats : Gemini Catamarans

We/I owned a Gemini for only 4 months earlier this year (long story...) and we were able to get a ton of support from this group.
It is a great budget boat that has certain shortcomings.

Good luck with your search.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by k-bob

Factor,
Thanks for the info. Actually, I have seen and read about Slapdash and their blog. I also know that the Gemini designer (I think his name is Tony Smith) took one across the Atlantic and there is a you tube video on that. So the cat is capable of ocean crossings.

And he has been quoted as saying he would NEVER do it again. But any small boat in the North Atlantic could leave you feeling that way!

Please explain your proposed use; for coastal and bay sailing, those design features (narrow, low bridge deck, no tramp) are all advanatages, as they cram the most space in the smallest package, and let you marina hop. It is a smart package built to a price point. Offshore, the other posters have made their points. The pounding is bad, the visability is poor, and more beam is better.

[Factor]

Yeah- Thinwater is pretty well correct, my reference to slapdash wasnt meant as a ringing endorsement - simply a notation that it can be done. All things being equal I wouldnt do it in a Gemini, but I am pretty conservative.

[simonmd]

Simple fact is they are alot of boat for the money. The next step up in size and style for the same age can be almost double the price. Put simply, they are the Ford Escort of the Cat world. Not as solid or well spec'd as a BMW sure but will still get the job done, even if the ride maybe a bit rougher.

If you want a good package for coastal cruising, go for it. If you want a serious round the world capable machine out of box though, you need bigger and stronger.

[ausaviator]

How about a lower priced FP Athena 38:
fountaine athena Boats For Sale

Or a Tobago:

tobago Boats For Sale

[k-bob]

thanks for the response. The thing is, I am not going to be doing any ocean crossing for 4-5 years while I get experience and learn everything I can about the boat. So... do I buy a boat like a Gemini for 4-5 years then trade up to something more substantial or go for the offshore cruiser right from the beginning. I know sailing basics but have never sailed anything larger than 14' before.

[simonmd]

That's a tough one to answer.

For- sounds more sensible, get good with a 34ft Gemini and then you'll be far better moving up to a 40ft. Smaller generaly means cheaper too, if you go off the idea ot your cercumstances change, then not so much tied up in the boat. I've seen good looking 105's advertised in the US starting at only 50-60k. A Lagoon 380, Priviledge, etc will be over double that.

Against- If you're SURE you want to do substantial long distance cruising, now is the time to buy. Boat values have never been lower and there are some great deals out there. In 4-5 years, things may have changed and your ideal boat may be out of reach.

[k-bob]

thanks. good points, i like the lagoons a lot but haven't seen any for less than $200k. a good later year gemini - $130-150. in terms of age, is there an age i shouldn't consider, say older than 10 yrs, 20yrs?

[Dragon Lady]

If you can afford it buy the boat that is right for what you want to in the long run.
If you look around you will find sub $200K Lagoons.
A good quality boat like a Lagoon will give many years of service if it is looked after well, try looking at the 37 foot TPI Lagoons.