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Old 03-05-2013, 18:10   #16
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

A 36 foot cat = 46 mono
Add 10 feet to most cats to = a mono
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Old 03-05-2013, 18:37   #17
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

We went with a Gemini 3400 and found it a nice liveaboard for the last 5 years.

Also consider:
- PDQ 32-36
- Catalac
- Endevor 30 or 36

It really is nice not to live in a cave on the water.
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Old 03-05-2013, 21:34   #18
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

The one thing you need to take into consideration is the load carrying capacity of a smaller cat.... Far more sensitive than a monohull, and weight just kills a cats performance.

In the smaller cats there just ins;t the interior volume to make them all that comfortable in my opinion.

I consider myself a multihull kind of guy, but if I were limited to a 100k budget I would go with a monohull... There just isn't anything out there in the with 2 hulls in the 100k range I would personally want to live aboard...
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:08   #19
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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post

You are not crazy. Below 38', multihulls start to make less sense for long-term liveaboard usage - the Gemini being among the better smaller liveaboards - and monohulls start to look more attractive.
Totally disagree with you here. Smaller cats such as gem or pdq etc are great and make great sense for a liveaboard. Easier to handle more bedrooms more space did i mention stable? A 34 gem has more room than 42 mono and is cheaper to dock, haul out, easier to sail, more comfy list goes on and on. We were at kw bight in high winds for 4 days and all the monos were heeled 10+ degrees and bobbing all over. They walk past our little comfy cat and id ask if they were sleeping well and you could see the misery.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:12   #20
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I have seen this boat listed. Seems like an awkward cat/multihull/whatever. I really don't know anything about the Packet Cat but from appearances...not intriqued.
I have seen two with substantial structural damage. Imhop they are too heavy and cannot sit on their keels without causing damage to themselfs. I would avoid. Though they are massive and do sail as good as a same sized mono.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:06   #21
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

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The one thing you need to take into consideration is the load carrying capacity of a smaller cat.... Far more sensitive than a monohull, and weight just kills a cats performance.

In the smaller cats there just ins;t the interior volume to make them all that comfortable in my opinion.

I consider myself a multihull kind of guy, but if I were limited to a 100k budget I would go with a monohull... There just isn't anything out there in the with 2 hulls in the 100k range I would personally want to live aboard...
If you are racing, this is a big consideration. As a cruiser, we still keep up with similar length mono's heavily loaded.

The liveability at anchor or dock (where you spend most of your time) is night and day better.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:00   #22
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Some people can liveaboard a Heavenly Twins 26 comfortably, others need 55 plus feet. How to outfit a cruising boat is also personal choice. Some liveaboard cats for under $100 I can think of. Catalac 34, Prout 37, Flica 35 or 37, Louisianne 37, Edel 35, Gemini, PDQ, Prout Ranger 45, Cherokee35, Solaris 36, Catfisher32, etc. etc. I'm sure given time you may find something like a Lagoon 37, FP Tobago35, Seawind1000 Island Spirit 35 etc. for around that price.
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Old 04-05-2013, 14:36   #23
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

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The idea that cats under 40' are not live able is just plain crazy. Take a look at the katikat blog about sailing a Seawind 1000 (33') for many years around the Pacific. It might be a bit above the target price but would out sail the Gemini's.

A 33' cat would have more living space that most 40' mono hulls and stay level.
I guess I'm in the minority on this opinion. Perhaps I'm simply spoiled by the prospect of the open, walkable spaces you get on a larger Lagoon.

Based on my "showroom" experiences, I felt like my old 34' hunter was more comfortable than a PDQ would be - but that is not the same as actually living there.

I did state that I feel the Geminis are "among the better" 34' cats for liveaboard, but I am put off by only having a 1'x2' space of full standing room in the main salon - and that directly in front of the door. Also, I'm not super-excited about the "look-through" feature of the helm.

In fact, I'm going to look at a Gemini today for a possible liveaboard/cruiser, so I'm not saying it's out of the question.

I've seen a full enclosure for the rear deck that really makes it feel more liveable and versatile.
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Old 04-05-2013, 21:58   #24
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

The small cats tend to have very low bridgedeck clearance.
As I understand the pounding in rough seas can be disturbing and sleepless nights.

$100k is going to get a project at 34+ feet. And while I agree with Art that the used charter boats will lower prices, the demand is still sky high and will soak them all up,
so $200k will drop to maybe $160k, not $100k.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:56   #25
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

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The small cats tend to have very low bridgedeck clearance.
As I understand the pounding in rough seas can be disturbing and sleepless nights.

$100k is going to get a project at 34+ feet. And while I agree with Art that the used charter boats will lower prices, the demand is still sky high and will soak them all up,
so $200k will drop to maybe $160k, not $100k.
It is one of the issues with smaller cats but not nearly the problem that people make out.

They do have lower bridgedeck clearance. Much of it is mitigated by the narrower beams. There is a relationship between bridge deck width and desirable bridge deck height. It's largely only an issue when heading dead into a short steep chop. If you bear off, the issue goes away for the most part. Since you can't sail dead into the wind, it's only an issue while motoring but you can still bear off for a more comfortable ride.

When we anchor, we generally avoid anchoring in 3 footers, so it's not much of an issue.

Plenty of mid 30' boats in decent shape under $100k. Now if you move up into the mid 40' range, you are looking at a project boat if you want to get it under $100k.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:11   #26
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It is one of the issues with smaller cats but not nearly the problem that people make out.

They do have lower bridgedeck clearance. Much of it is mitigated by the narrower beams. There is a relationship between bridge deck width and desirable bridge deck height. It's largely only an issue when heading dead into a short steep chop. If you bear off, the issue goes away for the most part. Since you can't sail dead into the wind, it's only an issue while motoring but you can still bear off for a more comfortable ride.

When we anchor, we generally avoid anchoring in 3 footers, so it's not much of an issue.

Plenty of mid 30' boats in decent shape under $100k. Now if you move up into the mid 40' range, you are looking at a project boat if you want to get it under $100k.
I completely agree. For $100k you should be able to find an older mid to upper 30 foot cat in good shape.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:00   #27
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

And if you are patient and lucky you might find also a cat around 40' in your budget. I paid in 2010 80,000 Euro for my 42' wood epoxy catamaran. It was/is in excellent shape, came with two brand new Yanmar engines with new sail drives, new electronic incl radar, 8.4" chart plotter, tac tic windmess and log/speed and much, much more. And the living space is unbelievable. In 2011 I sailed Lucia across the Atlantic from Europe to Canada.

Go and see if you can find a similar wood epoxy catamaran or trimaran. There is a very nice 43' Roger Simpson designed tri currently on the Market in Maine.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:44   #28
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

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And while I agree with Art that the used charter boats will lower prices, the demand is still sky high and will soak them all up,
so $200k will drop to maybe $160k, not $100k.
Right- I hadn't noticed at first that you budgeted $100k.

I see the charter cats coming down to 175, maybe as low as 160.

But there are also very old lagoons - the early models - that will probably go to 100k.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:58   #29
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Right- I hadn't noticed at first that you budgeted $100k.

I see the charter cats coming down to 175, maybe as low as 160.

But there are also very old lagoons - the early models - that will probably go to 100k.
Maybe like this one. http://virgin.craigslist.org/boa/3745706762.html
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Old 23-05-2013, 18:22   #30
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Re: Researching 34'-45' Cats to live aboard in the Caribben...any thoughts?

If you are new to Catamarans get yourself the "Cruising Catamaran Communique" book by Charles Kanter, not sure if it is still in print but I have seen them for sale on e-bay. Catamarans are not well understood, especially by mono-hull sailors. The design of the hulls, rig, cabin and bridgedecks can drastically change capacity, seaworthiness, handling etc. Kanter explains the differences quite clearly, and gives feedback on the hundreds of Cats he has sailed, delivered and surveyed. Another book, "The Cruising Multihull" by Chris White is also a good book to get started, not as in depth but includes Tri Hull concepts too. I have read both, after learning first hand the hard way. There are a lot of misconceptions and myths about Catamarans floating about. In real life, I have found that Mr. Kanter is quite accurate in what he presents, except he does have a few personal quirky favorite opinions. Best of luck to you exploring the Cat world.
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