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Old 22-11-2007, 11:56   #31
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Any day you would like and we are in the same area I will race you with our 43 ft cat with mini keels , you have got a very nice boat but I am pretty sure I will be a match for you. the third daggerboard is still in the factory in the golfe the catana. And I mostly sail single handedly or with more people on the boat but I still do the work.It is not a big negative but it is work and friend of mine with a catana 401 this year did not loose one daggerboard but 2 and not even at the same time in Sweden Unfortunately because catana went broke a couple of years ago the mould where no longer in the factory and they had to have plugs and moulds made to get them renewed.
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Old 26-11-2007, 14:13   #32
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keels/ daggerboards -solaris

firstly, thanks guys for the feedback ,invaluable . the cat is a solaris sunstar stretched to 38 ft its based on an erik le rouge design with keels .its all grp and strongly built . the waters around greece are deep , so no draught concerns , the quest is for a slippery, hull the wake is not so clean and maybe daggerboards ,lifted , would give less drag / friction and pointing would be improved ?
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Old 26-11-2007, 14:26   #33
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It will be a waste of time and effort to make that change to this boat
The hull lenght to width ratio is around 1:8 it is a heavy boat and speed is just not its thing If you want a faster cat you will have to swop for a faster type with a lot less weight.
you are right the boat is strong but also very heavy , built with a solid laminate in CSM if I remember well and a thick layer of gellcoat.
It is a nice cruiser but that is it. Good luck in your quest
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Old 26-11-2007, 14:28   #34
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and in reply to Pat Ross, yes i asked the tomcat team and they kindly sent me the info on their drop down board , its a very intyeresting option , but ought to be made at build time with the boat and FastCat , how do the mini keel versions perform against the daggerboard versions ? i knopw outremer did a 45 with fixed keels and heard that its performance was 95% of the standard , daggerboard 45 . my keels are also sacrificial so removing them is no big deal
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Old 26-11-2007, 14:55   #35
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And you want...

I looked a an image of a Solaris Sunstar.

It showed a modern boat with a long waterline and an efficient rig.

The listed price was high. Over $150k.

I would not imagine that using daggerboards would give a useful increase in speed.

If you really have to go faster selling the Sunstar and buying one of the racing trimarans would be a much less risky and far more cost effective way to go.

Might I suggest...
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Old 26-11-2007, 15:57   #36
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Huh ?????


Quote:
It showed a modern boat with a long waterline and an efficient rig.

If your above statement were true, surely your below statment would be false.

Quote:
I would not imagine that using daggerboards would give a useful increase in speed.
As the majority of modern boats with a long waterline and an efficient rigs use daggerboards to give a useful increase in speed and pointing ability.

Dave
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Old 26-11-2007, 17:25   #37
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There are many stiles of dagger boards and from reading the comments from people the most practical is to go with the standard perpendicular with the botoom area fully scraficial, so if you do hit snything when approaching an anchorage at least you will not destroy the box you will merely have a shorter board, Please ensure that who ever is designing the box that yiu fully reinforce the forward and aft areas as this will give you a strong chance is you do hit something with the board lastly the psoitioning on the boards will generally not be the centre of the old keels it is wise to give a designer your boat plan along with your rig plan and angle of roach in mast and sail.

Cheers Terry
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Old 26-11-2007, 17:56   #38
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Daggerboard damage.

A pic of the board from my last cat after hitting reef at New Caledonia at 14 knots.

The board was fully down when we hit and the hull of the boat was almost fully out of the water supported by the board after the strike.

It took over 30 minutes of fwd and reverse and pushing and grinding to get off the reef and another hour to get the board out of the case as it had jammed back into it (case shaped to board)

After a dive and examination we continued cruising for another week.

There was no visible damage inside the boat and externally there was a small crease in the glass about 1/2 an inch long in the back edge of the hull where the case exits.

We had no sacrificial bottom in the belief that over the years we would have spent a lot of time repairing the sacrificial area. After speaking to owners with foam tips, they would agree.

Dave
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Old 26-11-2007, 18:24   #39
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Resale?

I wonder what a modification like this would do to resale value?
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Old 27-11-2007, 09:31   #40
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fatcats !

i was surprised at some replies to my question of fitting daggerboards , "go buy a faster boat " wheres the ingenuity in that ? surely this chatroom is for the brave and cunning ?i dont have a big budget , that went on the boat , i do have time and a progressive outlook and enjoy tweaking things , i am also a classic car enthusiast and always enjoyed tweaking a bit more performance out of cars uprating an old engine from 90 bhp to 132 bhp was immensly satisfying - far better than plonking a 250 bhp V8 in ! so i relish the positive responses offered here , but if anyone wants to exchange an outremer 42/ 45 for a smaller , slower boat , then i am all ears !
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Old 27-11-2007, 10:29   #41
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I see your point about cars but it's not a true parallel. If you give your boat more HP, either in sail area or larger engines, it may.. or may not be an improvement. A car would of course benefit by increasing power, at least in a straight line by simply beefing up the suspension.

Unfortunately, hull design, sail plan, bow waves..stern waves..center of effort.. COG (and many other factors) you name it, comes into play with a multihull sailing vessel and things get complicated. I think most of the replies suggest a naval architech, not that it can't be done, although some do question the cost of the redesign vs buying another boat..

A view I whole heartily support. OTOH... it's your money!!
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Old 27-11-2007, 12:16   #42
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ingenuity and lots of blood sweat and tears and probably a negative result I cannot advice you. You have got a good boat just get 15 % of the weight out , probably a whole lot simpler and your performance will increase with a minimum of 15 %
your pointing ability,s will also become better and your VMC will go up a lot.
What better advice can you wish for and completely free of charge.
Your engines will even use less fuel and make less noise at the same speed as a bonus That is what I call a win win situation
Good Luck with whatever you do
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Old 27-11-2007, 12:51   #43
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Replacing daggerboards with keels

I would never replace both keels with two daggerboards on this Lerouge.
Too costly. If you really want to go upwind faster, first try new high tech sails, then put in one daggerboard only - one large board. You will only be a tiny bit slower - a tiny bit - than a cat with two boards, and far, far faster than a cat with fixed keels.

Best,
Phil Berman
The Multihull Company
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Old 27-11-2007, 14:46   #44
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I know this may sound crazy and tell me if it is, but has anyone ever considered leeboards that retract on a catamaran?..especially for his situation where adding a daggerboards may not be a good idea. Making them out of carbon probably would not weigh all that much....right?

I just thought I would throw the idea out there.
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Old 27-11-2007, 23:55   #45
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thanks fastcat , i am always thinking of ways to reduce weight the boat was not built as a lightweight , so i continually throw things off ! i fitted her out so was able to monitor weight but she still weighs 6.2 tons , but thats not too bad for a 38 ft cat surely ? and thanks phillip , interesting idea , one daggerboard , how would you suggest i go about that ? central under bridgedeck ? or on one hull ? another point here - by removing the fixed keels would this affect my buoyancy? as they make up quite a lot of volume , or would removing them balance out the bouyancy difference ? sails - i have a mylar jib 33% larger than original , quite a powerful sail , and a new dacron / marblehead main , 20% larger roach , full battens , stiffest bainbridge type , but this main was made too short by jeckells(by 500mm-720mm !) and had to be re-made i wonder if the integrity of overall design was affected because the leech seems to fall away in anything over F3/4 this must affect pointing ability ?
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