Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-09-2008, 06:03   #31
Registered User
 
scarab's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wenduine, Belgium
Boat: Hanse 371
Posts: 85
Images: 1
Joli,

How did you set-up the downhaul system ?
__________________

__________________
scarab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 06:14   #32
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Eleven, you are correct about general downwind tactics in a cat and it speaks to the need for a decent wind instrument that will show both true and apparent wind speed/direction. Having said that, on a run you will need more than a 30 degree course change to head into the wind; in so doing, it will require you to bring the beam of your boat across the seas/wind and, as the wind moves forward, actually increase your apparent wind speed. This is hardly the ideal thing to do when overpowered in heavy seas. The simple answer, once again, is to reef early - especially in heavy seas.

If I am on a close reach, I head up when overpowered, start the diesels, adjust the autopilot and reef ( and yes, I know that this will cause some debate, although I am not talking about a situation where one has raised a hull). If I am broad reaching/running and the seas are high, I prefer to head directly downwind, center the main, loosen the lazy jacks and then reef using the downhaul.

And I disagree with price quoted by Big Cat for installing a batcar system. A system from Tides Marine can be installed on most 40 foot cats for around $2000.00; a more substantial system from Harken for about twice that. Further, if one has a cutter or "Prout' rig, Rutgersen produces a decent trackless batcar system for even less than the Tides marine system Regardless, if you have a full-batten main, you need a batcar system regardless of whether you are sailing a mono or multi.

Brad
__________________

__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 06:46   #33
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,086
I am no expert but heading up a tiny bit to increase apparent and then bearing away and dropping the halyard to a pre marked point works for me every single time, I have single line reefing - seems to work for me.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 10:54   #34
cruiser
 
BigCat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Posts: 765
When I say big sails, I mean BIG sails

[quote=Southern Star;

And I disagree with price quoted by Big Cat for installing a batcar system. A system from Tides Marine can be installed on most 40 foot cats for around $2000.00; a more substantial system from Harken for about twice that. Brad[/quote] I'm talking about 1,200 square foot sails.
__________________
BigCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 11:34   #35
Registered User
 
mark_morwood's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cruising (Atlantic -> Med -> Carib -> Pacific)
Boat: Vancouver 36, Hobie 33, Catana 48, now all with new owners
Posts: 208
The numbers seem high to me. I paid around $4000 dollars for all the Harken hardware (track, headboard and cars) to support a 900 sq ft main on a Catana 48. This was purchased through the sailmaker at the same time as he made me the sail.

Mark
__________________
mark_morwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 12:13   #36
Registered User
 
Arch Stanton's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Olympia, WA
Boat: San Juan 28
Posts: 214
Can someone back it up a bit and explain for a newb the actual logistical problem here? Seems like something about the stays and shrounds getting in the way when reefing on a cat, but I'm having trouble visualizing what's going on here cause I've only sailed monohull.

It doesn't help that when I google "batcar" I get five hundred pages of Batmobile links.
__________________
Arch Stanton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 12:16   #37
cruiser
 
BigCat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Posts: 765
"c" system

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
The numbers seem high to me. I paid around $4000 dollars for all the Harken hardware (track, headboard and cars) to support a 900 sq ft main on a Catana 48. This was purchased through the sailmaker at the same time as he made me the sail.

Mark
For a 1200 sq. ft. mainsail you have to use the biggest system that Harken makes-the "C" system. It's not cheap.
__________________
BigCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 12:20   #38
cruiser
 
BigCat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Posts: 765
Shrouds come quite aft these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
Can someone back it up a bit and explain for a newb the actual logistical problem here? Seems like something about the stays and shrounds getting in the way when reefing on a cat, but I'm having trouble visualizing what's going on here cause I've only sailed monohull.

It doesn't help that when I google "batcar" I get five hundred pages of Batmobile links.
Many, perhaps most, rigs on newer catamarans have shrouds that come quite a ways aft. I think this is a terrible idea-you can't use your main when running with this setup. All very well for a racer, but a lousy idea on a short-handed cruising boat. Clearly, whoever came up with this idea does not take seriously the idea that you should be able to function without a motor near land. You see it on many recent monohulls, too.
__________________
BigCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 16:08   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
If you want to sail on a dead run, don't use the main. It's not what it's meant for, and there are far cheaper more "expendable" sails that do the job better.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 06:19   #40
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
44'cruisingcat, you are of course correct except: 1. the thread concerned reefing the main, which presumes that it is up; and 2. as I understand it, the manufacturers of some cats without backstays recommend keeping the main up when flying a spinnaker.


And Factor, maybe I'm missing something but it sounds as if you are recommending reefing the main while reaching - i.e., heading off before dropping the halyard.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2008, 10:07   #41
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
PS Factor, I hear you about single line reefing. It of course eliminates the need for a downhaul and for a trip to the gooseneck in order to reef. I had installed it on my last two boats but have left my current cat with its orignal 'single line for the clew, reefing hook for the tack' slab system because: 1. as a cutter, or 'Prout' rig, the mast base and gooseneck are directly in front of the cockpit, making access to the reefing hook for the tack extremely simple; 2. I already have a fair bit of clutter at the mast base and, adding extra blocks for 3 reefs seemed a bit much.

Scarag, a downhaul is extremely easy to install. I use 1/4" line (it need not be very strong) and there are advantages to thinner line in terms of not only cost, but reduced chafe on the main. How you set it up will depend in part on how your mainsail is attached to the mast. If it uses a bolt rope, the downhaul will have to be run loose from the headboard to a block at the base of the mast (although some prefer to attach it to the main halyard shackle - this eliminates the need to attach the halyard, when not in use, to the toerail/stantion bases, although it does create another source of 'halyard rap' when moored/docked).

If the mainsail has lugs, it may be possible to run a thinner, high-tech line from the headboard/halyard shackle down through the attachments for each lug to the block at the base of the mast. This eliminates chafe on the mainsail and is a system that I had previously used on the foresails of a boat I owned with hank-on jibs. It enabled me to lower the jib from the cockpit and keep it tied down to the deck at the luff (the sheets hold it at the foot) until I could get forward.

Brad
__________________

__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reefing lines BEST? Tnflakbait Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 32 21-04-2008 16:14
furler-reefing Amgine Construction, Maintenance & Refit 19 21-06-2007 13:30
Single line reefing harryvee Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 13 07-07-2006 19:22
Reefing Systems sjs General Sailing Forum 4 26-08-2004 10:14
Roller reefing / furling sails BBWolf General Sailing Forum 1 12-11-2003 21:10



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.