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Old 18-12-2013, 00:00   #1
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Ready Set Go... Catamaran Search

We are planning a trip to florida in early January to look for a cat in Florida. We have someone looking for cats for us. We would like to see as many as we can as we are ready to purchase.
We have had a few brokers trying to get us to "look at their private listings" I am so weary of salesmen that I might even be very guarded. I just want to make sure that if I spend the money to go look ( more spent now is less in the kitty)
How do you find someone to trust an this size purchase.

Ready to by ...scared to be taken
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Old 18-12-2013, 00:28   #2
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

When money changes hands, who can you trust.

I'd suggest finding a cat experienced friend to go with when looking. B/c it'll take a long time/mistakes to learn what you need to know to keep from getting taken.

Boat salesmen, Brokers as they like to be called, are no different then a car salesmen, or to be PC, "salesperson". They can tell if you're green, vs salty.

Also, surf all the multihull sites and learn the terminology of all the sections/parts of a Cat.

Know the difference between composite and fiberglass. learn how cross beams are attached and how the forestay is attached and how the anchoring is set up.

And do you want drop keels or skegs, inboard or outboard motors, trampoline or hard deck? There is so much to know in relation to what you want to do with the boat/Cat.

Good luck to ya!
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Old 18-12-2013, 01:05   #3
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

As a disclaimer, I have and do act as a buyers agent from time to time.

This really is a concern in the boat market, since brokers make their money from the seller not the buyer. And frankly most brokers know that you are only likely to buy a used boat at extraordinarily extended intervals, so long term happiness with the boat really isn't their concern. It is making sure they sell anything to you, regardless of suitability because that's how they get paid.

The option is to hire a buyers broker who acts for your best interest. They typically get paid up front not on commission, with a small kicker at act of sale regardless of the value of the boat purchased. This puts their financial interest in line with yours since they get paid regardless of what you buy.

Frankly it just isn't economical for many boats since it is in addition to the typical brokerage fee (I have received partial commissions in the past and credit this towards my clients bill so I walk away the same either way). But for expensive boats, or people who can't justify taking multiple trips to look at boats it can be a very good deal. For boats over $1 million there will almost always be a buyers agent for example, as the boat value drops below about $200,000 it becomes harder and harder to justify.

Fees for this tend not to vary that much based on the value of the boat, but on the travel time involved. So if criteria matching boats are rare and spread all over the world, then travel costs can add up quick, while if it is a relatively common boat in a particular area there may be little to no travel expenses (this is spelled out at the beginning). My contract for instance assumes no more than three trips in the US or Caribean, with additional travel billed on a cost incurred basis.


I just reread this and it looks like I am trolling for clients. So to be clear, I used to do a good bit of this work, but have only been involved in one boat in the last two years and that was for a repeat customer. It is just a side of the boat trade many people don't know about, and one I have experience with.
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Old 18-12-2013, 05:31   #4
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
It is making sure they sell anything to you, regardless of suitability because that's how they get paid. .
Which is about as accurate as saying Solicitors* are crooks, cause like one fiddled his trust account the other day. I get really sick and tired of being tarred with a brush not of my own making.

My view has always been, if you come across a crook, OUT HIM/HER, don't describe all members of that occupation, race, gender, show size, religion etc etc as crooks.


*For my North American friends, solicitors are roughly equivalent to Attorneys.
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Old 18-12-2013, 06:45   #5
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

I believe it is wise to deal with a well-established brokerage which has been in business in that geographical area for a long time. Word gets around, and if there are too many unsatisfied customers a company won't last (or at least we hope that's how it works). So: experienced, established vs hot-shot, smooth talking, no offices.

You're right though; it's a concern. It was interesting to read Stumble's post. I didn't realize buyer's agents existed, but when you think about it, of course they would.
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Old 18-12-2013, 07:26   #6
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
SNIP

And do you want drop keels or skegs, inboard or outboard motors, trampoline or hard deck? There is so much to know in relation to what you want to do with the boat/Cat.

Good luck to ya!
There is no right or wrong answer to any of these questions but you should at least know what the terms mean. For some folks they would be deal breakers, for others there are more important things like the condition of the boat.

I spent six month looking for my boat. Drove to New Orleans, Jacksonville, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Stuart, Ft. Myers, Miami, and the Keys.

At one level this may seem like a waste of time but keep in mind that just looking at different boats is a learning experience. You will get a feel for just how much room is inside, what the head smells like, how large the freezer is, and lots of other things.

Also keep in mind it is a buyers market so you don't need to be in a hurry. There are plenty of boats out there.
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Old 18-12-2013, 18:11   #7
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

Thank you for that reminder. The biggest fear I guess is being wasteful with the funds, not burning thru the vacation time and coming up empty and buying the "lemon of the lot" so to speak. I wish there was a zillow type search for the for sale by owner cats like there is for houses. We have been to Annapolis for the boat show, Tampa and Clearwater browsing thru the marinas as well as Galveston but everything is at a minimum of 8 hours drive time from us. And flying anywhere from Tulsa's airport is $400.00 plus per person and a whole day wasted in airports. And again a big dent in the kitty...I guess I am just nervous since we are getting close to the dream. The house is under offer and we are on a 12 month count down (8) if all goes well.
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Old 18-12-2013, 18:20   #8
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

I do not know whether Australia is different but I have never encountered a broker of second hand boats who was in any way as described here. Certainly when it comes to new boats there is a tendency by brokers to stretch the truth, but second hand brokers seem to recognise that the person they are selling to could well be their next customer.

My view is that if you feel pressured in any way move on to the next guy.
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Old 18-12-2013, 18:38   #9
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

Hang On!.....

I don't know what your time line is but I'll share my experience.
I was located in Canada's West, inland and bought my first cruiser (25' O'Day..Great Boat) in the late 1990's. I was always scouring yachtworld.com just out of interest, ok, and dreaming. Spotted my dreamboat in 2001, followed the listing and followed the listing....Long story short... 19 year marriage went sour, 2002 went and looked at the boat in Grenada, offered 20K less than original listing and I'm still in the Caribbean sailing my dreamboat today.

Take your time. There will ALWAYS be good boats

Cheers
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Old 18-12-2013, 18:39   #10
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

What's your budget?
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Old 18-12-2013, 18:47   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by got seashells? View Post
I wish there was a zillow type search for the for sale by owner cats like there is for houses.
Have you tried sailboatlistings.com?
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Old 18-12-2013, 18:52   #12
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
When money changes hands, who can you trust.

I'd suggest finding a cat experienced friend to go with when looking. B/c it'll take a long time/mistakes to learn what you need to know to keep from getting taken.

Boat salesmen, Brokers as they like to be called, are no different then a car salesmen, or to be PC, "salesperson". They can tell if you're green, vs salty.

Also, surf all the multihull sites and learn the terminology of all the sections/parts of a Cat.

Know the difference between composite and fiberglass. learn how cross beams are attached and how the forestay is attached and how the anchoring is set up.

And do you want drop keels or skegs, inboard or outboard motors, trampoline or hard deck? There is so much to know in relation to what you want to do with the boat/Cat.

Good luck to ya!
You must live in a different world than I .I have personally purchased and sold 20 plus boat over the years and have never had a bad dealing with a broker. All have advised me to seek my own surveyor satisfy myself in any manner I choose .As to the type of boat to buy that is not a Brokers responsibility. No I have never been in the Boat Business.
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Old 18-12-2013, 19:11   #13
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

You are your own "buyers broker". The bit about "the seller paying both commissions" is an old line, it is a line though. You (the buyer) are bringing the checkbook to the table, the money comes out of your pocket.... Don't let anyone fool you.

The best possible is to try to find a boat not represented by a broker... Tough to do with the more expensive boats you are looking at. The broker can save you time, if your time is limited or if you are in a hurry.. But their working to get you closed to collect their percentage.... Not necessarily to find you the very best deal.

Problem is that you really can not know their intrest. The more honest brokers will not recommend a surveyor, but you can not know if that boat they recommend is a former yacht club buddy who has promised them something extra....

A boat I have captained was sold by a "broker" after the fact the broker seemed not only to wind up with some of the gear aboard, but the broker the surveyor and the prior owner all were palls.... It is amazing what can be overlooked on a survey when these coincidences happen. :whistle:

Not trying to scare you, I have heard there are honest brokers out there... I am just telling you to keep your wits about you... Not everyone who says "trust me" is really your friend.
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Old 18-12-2013, 19:15   #14
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Re: Ready set go.....hang on.. What??? Boy

Quote:
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You must live in a different world than I .I have personally purchased and sold 20 plus boat over the years and have never had a bad dealing with a broker. All have advised me to seek my own surveyor satisfy myself in any manner I choose .As to the type of boat to buy that is not a Brokers responsibility. No I have never been in the Boat Business.
Obviously they could sense they you know something about boats and walked softly to avoid a walk away.
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Old 18-12-2013, 21:03   #15
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We just spent the last few months looking for our next cat. There are a ton of miss represented boats out here. Terms like "ready togo" " cruise now" and needs only minor cleaning are typically a bunch of crap. We have wasted days looking at over priced heaps ready for scrap yard. You are way better off having so.e idea of what you want and what compromises you are willing to make and asking people here and the multihull sites to keep a.lookout or help you find it.
We could start right.now.just need to now what your looking for.
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