Ready Set Go... Catamaran Search

[got seashells?]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

We just spent the last few months looking for our next cat. There are a ton of miss represented boats out here. Terms like "ready togo" " cruise now" and needs only minor cleaning are typically a bunch of crap. We have wasted days looking at over priced heaps ready for scrap yard. You are way better off having so.e idea of what you want and what compromises you are willing to make and asking people here and the multihull sites to keep a.lookout or help you find it.
We could start right.now.just need to now what your looking for.

Fair enough, we are wanting a 3 berth cat 36-40 foot in length must have a trampoline in front, must be cared for meaning we do not want a project boat. It will be our home so it needs to be functional as well as safe and ready for sailing. We will start out doing day sails and short coastal jaunts for the first year while we get completely settled and acclimated to the boat and it's systems. We understand it may need updated electronics and such but should not require full rewiring we would prefer a hard top Bimini as we spend a lot of time outside with the dogs but prefer the comfort of the shade and would like it set up with solar panels. We would expect to replace batteries so that is not a deal breaker but would not hurt our feelings if they are in good shape. We will need it to have a fridge/freezer and we will lean on all of you to recommend a good honest surveyor. I hope that helps and doesn't sound too demanding. We have financing approved pending an approved boat. But would rather pay for it ourselves and $150,000.00 fits nicely into our budget. And we are not very fond of the layout of the Gemini so we have crossed that one off.

[Sand crab]

1996 Fountaine Pajot Venezia 42 sailboat for sale in Florida

[Dulcesuenos]

Theres a 2004 Fountaine Pajot Athena in decent shape we looked at in Ft Pierce that can be had for 130k in very clean solid shape. Wife wanted different galley and the heads are small(one of our compromises)
Solaris sunstar coming up in TX soon? Just a couple for starters

http://m.yachtworld.com/mobile/boats.../United-States
Interesting Island Spirit in Fl with diesel electric conversion, looms like a nice boat. Nothing in the keys right know worth looking at. Theres a lagoon 37 priced at 139k. But it needs 60k in work+ and owner is fairly firm in price.the privilige 39 in pensacola looks nice but will need sails and rigging in a year or two. Their at 140 could get for 15%+ less im sure. But rigging and sails are another 20k. Get a good surveyor, best guy I know for cats is out of marco fl. John cambpell i can pm his number. Johnathan sands is ok alot.of people swear by him, id prefer the prior.

[tamicatana]

Boats are expensive, before and after purchase. you'll just have to get over that.

First: Go on the 'Net, do your searches etc, and have a short list of boats you're interested in, hopefully in or near the same area. Plan on traveling, a lot. Ads, no matter how well done, are ALWAYS deceptive, however unintentional that may be. Like reading a book vs seeing the movie. You'll just have to go see the boat(s)

Go to this site: Marine Survey 101, how to do your own marine survey and learn how to do your own 'micro' survey. You will likely cross off quite a few from your list by using these tips.

Do an Internet search of the names of the boats (and owners) you're interested in. People publish blogs. Blogs tell all sorts of interesting things about boats that the sellers wish you didn't know when they try to sell the boats. We learned about a transmission issue on one boat, just by reading a blog. The broker and seller were ballistic when they found out we knew, it really was rather funny...

Once you find the boat you think you'll like and are fairly sure about it, then call in your surveyor, after you make damn sure the surveyor is the meanest, best one you can find. Don't let a broker recommend a surveyor, or at least do a lot of research about the recommended one. Best multihull surveyor I know, and you can search the name:

Mike Firestone of Port Aransas, TX

Worth having him flown in, if a couple grand can save you tens of grands.

Most important. DO. NOT. FALL. IN. LOVE. WITH. THE. BOAT.

The above is taken from my experience, others' may vary.

oh, as for 'for sale by owner' www.catamaransite.com (click on 'Catamarans for Sale') but be sure to read the site, lots of other interesting stuff

[got seashells?]

That as well as the one above are very nice looking boats however they are both 4berths. That is the big kicker on most that we find, the space that you loose in the bath is not something hubbie will budge on as we are in our RV a lot and The shower space there is small.....plus we need the space rather than another bed.

Thank you for your help tho and if anything else comes to mind please share.

[ShaktiGurl]

You pay a premium for 3 berth owners versions usually because they have not been in charter and have additional amenities like generators and AC. You might consider the FP Mahe duo 36 for the nice two stateroom layout with good size private baths. We have seen some under $200k available at times.

[Southern Star]

If I am reading your posts in this thread correctly, the only things that you indicated would not be deal-breakers in terms of maintenance/upgrades required would be the electronics and batteries. That being the case, you are expecting either a relatively new boat, or one that has recent replacement of all sails, running rigging, standing rigging, canvas and which has relatively low hours on the diesels. You also want a 3 cabin layout with a large head compartment/shower. You want solar panels and hopefully a hard bimini - and you would like to purchase this for 150 K (and I assume that includes all taxes).

Is it possible? Perhaps. But I strongly suspect that you are going to be disappointed in the course of a one week random search in Florida, or anywhere else. Yes, you might get very lucky. Yes, you will at least get a better idea of the actual market and of the typical condition of boats in your price range. However, you should undersand that your requirements will eliminate the vast majority of boats on the market under $200K., let alone $150 K. You can kiss goodbye any boats coming off charter (typically the lowest priced ones) for the following reasons:

1. Condition of sails/running rigging - typically the Charter companies sell the boat when their sails and running rigging are in need of replacement.
2. Hours on diesels - usually very high on ex-charter boats and, even though they may not need immediate replacement, you should budget for the same in the near future.
3. The layout - most will be 4 cabin.
4. Equipment inventory - they will not likely have a solid bimini, below deck autopilot, solar panels etc.

This leaves you looking for either:

1. An owner's version of a 36 to 40 foot cat that is no more than about 6 years old (after 10 years, you will likely need to replace sails, running and standing rigging). I suspect it will be extremely difficult to find one of those in your size range for 150K including taxes.
2. An owner's version of a cat that is more than 10 years old, but which has had a terrific maintenance schedule including replacement of the sails, running rigging, standing rigging, lifelines, cockpit cushions, trampoline, canvas, etc. Again, I suspect that there will be very few on the market, especially in your price range. Boats such as this are in very high demand and, as a result, typically command significantly higher prices than other boats of the same vintage.

You mention that your husband wants a large shower - this too may prove challenging on older boats in your size range: in the 90's, most cats under 40 feet did not have large separate shower stalls, but rather a sump in the floor of the head compartment.

Will it be impossible to find a boat that meets that criteria? Perhaps not. However, I suspect that you would be better off paying close attention to boats on the web searching for what appears to be an incredible bargain. Make inquiries, ask for current photos, replacement dates for sails etc. (confirm that they have receipts to prove the same) and copies of any recent surveys. If you find the boat of your dreams in your price range, then strike fast!

Good luck!

Brad

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

If I am reading your posts in this thread correctly, the only things that you indicated would not be deal-breakers in terms of maintenance/upgrades required would be the electronics and batteries. That being the case, you are expecting either a relatively new boat, or one that has recent replacement of all sails, running rigging, standing rigging, canvas and which has relatively low hours on the diesels. You also want a 3 cabin layout with a large head compartment/shower. You want solar panels and hopefully a hard bimini - and you would like to purchase this for 150 K (and I assume that includes all taxes).

Is it possible? Perhaps. But I strongly suspect that you are going to be disappointed in the course of a one week random search in Florida, or anywhere else. Yes, you might get very lucky. Yes, you will at least get a better idea of the actual market and of the typical condition of boats in your price range. However, you should undersand that your requirements will eliminate the vast majority of boats on the market under $200K., let alone $150 K. You can kiss goodbye any boats coming off charter (typically the lowest priced ones) for the following reasons:

1. Condition of sails/running rigging - typically the Charter companies sell the boat when their sails and running rigging are in need of replacement.
2. Hours on diesels - usually very high on ex-charter boats and, even though they may not need immediate replacement, you should budget for the same in the near future.
3. The layout - most will be 4 cabin.
4. Equipment inventory - they will not likely have a solid bimini, below deck autopilot, solar panels etc.

This leaves you looking for either:

1. An owner's version of a 36 to 40 foot cat that is no more than about 6 years old (after 10 years, you will likely need to replace sails, running and standing rigging). I suspect it will be extremely difficult to find one of those in your size range for 150K including taxes.
2. An owner's version of a cat that is more than 10 years old, but which has had a terrific maintenance schedule including replacement of the sails, running rigging, standing rigging, lifelines, cockpit cushions, trampoline, canvas, etc. Again, I suspect that there will be very few on the market, especially in your price range. Boats such as this are in very high demand and, as a result, typically command significantly higher prices than other boats of the same vintage.

You mention that your husband wants a large shower - this too may prove challenging on older boats in your size range: in the 90's, most cats under 40 feet did not have large separate shower stalls, but rather a sump in the floor of the head compartment.

Will it be impossible to find a boat that meets that criteria? Perhaps not. However, I suspect that you would be better off paying close attention to boats on the web searching for what appears to be an incredible bargain. Make inquiries, ask for current photos, replacement dates for sails etc. (confirm that they have receipts to prove the same) and copies of any recent surveys. If you find the boat of your dreams in your price range, then strike fast!

Good luck!

Brad

Yep............

[Dulcesuenos]

We didnt like the 4 berths on the athena however had we gone that direction one stateroom would have become a storage.room/ pantry/ workshop. Etc
Theres a sweet 96 privilige 37 in grenada withba huge head/ separate shower etc

[rancher44]

Just keep looking . I have been looking since may and really having a time with misrepresented boats . They have huge amounts of hours and people have said oh you can get that fixed for xxx when in fact the price is 3x's that.
Hard tops on 40-45 15K New yanmars 9-10K REBUILD 7-8k SO YOU WILL LEARN A LOT .
Get a good broker [I have one ] and be ready to spend 200-260K
GOOD lUCK

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith'

You are your own "buyers broker". The bit about "the seller paying both commissions" is an old line, it is a line though. You (the buyer) are bringing the checkbook to the table, the money comes out of your pocket.... Don't let anyone fool you.

The best possible is to try to find a boat not represented by a broker... Tough to do with the more expensive boats you are looking at. The broker can save you time, if your time is limited or if you are in a hurry.. But their working to get you closed to collect their percentage.... Not necessarily to find you the very best deal.

Problem is that you really can not know their intrest. The more honest brokers will not recommend a surveyor, but you can not know if that boat they recommend is a former yacht club buddy who has promised them something extra....

A boat I have captained was sold by a "broker" after the fact the broker seemed not only to wind up with some of the gear aboard, but the broker the surveyor and the prior owner all were palls.... It is amazing what can be overlooked on a survey when these coincidences happen. :whistle:

Not trying to scare you, I have heard there are honest brokers out there... I am just telling you to keep your wits about you... Not everyone who says "trust me" is really your friend.

Good post. The broker has one goal: commissions. You have a different goal: getting the right boat for you.

These can overlap, but it is a mistake to believe that they always do.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by got seashells?

We are planning a trip to florida in early January to look for a cat in Florida. We have someone looking for cats for us. We would like to see as many as we can as we are ready to purchase.
We have had a few brokers trying to get us to "look at their private listings" I am so weary of salesmen that I might even be very guarded. I just want to make sure that if I spend the money to go look ( more spent now is less in the kitty)
How do you find someone to trust an this size purchase.

Ready to by ...scared to be taken

Assuming that you're looking for a "luxury" cat (i.e. 40+ Lagoon, Prout, etc), "going to look" is probably not a good strategy.

If you have not seen any cats, I suggest going to the next big boat show - Annapolis is probably the best for you - and to call the Catamaran Company, who have a marina near Ft Lauderdale with a selection of used Catarmarans to view.

As to actually finding a Catamaran to buy, that is a different kind of effort - it requires establishing a budget, understanding what you want to buy, then waiting for a motivated seller.

The boats currently on the market - unless they appeared yesterday - are overpriced. Catamaran company does a good job of aggressively pricing boats, and can help you find the right boat from the international market to meet your budget/needs.

There are other catamaran brokerages, but I don't know of another who is as specialized and organized as Catamaran Company, especially in SE Florida, due to their "exclusive showroom" concept.

While you're there, also visit the Moorings sales office. They will give you an interesting sales pitch.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

I However, you should undersand that your requirements will eliminate the vast majority of boats on the market under $200K., let alone $150 K. You can kiss goodbye any boats coming off charter (typically the lowest priced ones) for the following reasons:

1. Condition of sails/running rigging - typically the Charter companies sell the boat when their sails and running rigging are in need of replacement.
2. Hours on diesels - usually very high on ex-charter boats and, even though they may not need immediate replacement, you should budget for the same in the near future.
3. The layout - most will be 4 cabin.
4. Equipment inventory - they will not likely have a solid bimini, below deck autopilot, solar panels etc.

I think you should strongly consider a charter boat. Though not perfect, they are in wide supply and consistently priced and outfitted. They will be cheaper than ANY owners boat, unless the owner's boat is trashed out or just severely underpriced (good luck on that one!).

The good thing about ex-charters is that you can get one today for $200k, choose from a field of a dozen nearly identical models in a single location, then start sailing it the moment you take possession.

[Southern Star]

2001 Lagoon 380 owners version Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Here is an owner's version Lagoon 380 - one of the few older boats in your size range that does have a separate stall shower. There is no mention of the hours on the diesels, or age of the sails etc. and I note that it has been chartered over the last few years, so...... Nevertheless, it is at the low end for an owner's version boat that generally meets your criteria (apart from the lack of a solid bimini, substantial solar panels and likely the need for some expensive upgrades/replacements in the near future). I doubt you could get it down to 150, but at least it is not too far out of your range.

Brad

[Dulcesuenos]

Really like the l380 in owners version, the charter version w 4 cabins not so much.