Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

[Thalas]

Are life rafts positive, neutral, or negatively buoyant?

So, other than Outremer (which I believe stores their life rafts on the trampoline and are thus accessible from either side of the boat), most modern cats store their life rafts somewhere in the cockpit (e.g. FP under the helm stairs). In the event of a capsize, the protocol is to get into the hulls as fast as possible since the air will be trapped there (it can flood the salon) and you'll have access to the escape hatches. At some point, you escape and are now on top of the inverted hull while your life raft is under the inverted bridge deck. If the life raft is neutrally buoyant, I could see diving underneath to free it and bring it past the transom. But if the life raft is positively buoyant, wouldn't it trap itself under the stairs or be impossible to free? Anyone know how this works?

[Cavalier MK2]

This is a loaded question. Lets unload it. When a life raft is not being used it is negative buoyancy Proper life raft placement would have it located to be accessible from outside between the hulls when inverted. . No carting it out, pulling triggers inside etc....

I think your best life raft would be the mothership. Make sure it has enough flotation to float high so you can break the air lock and a inverted space/room with outside access to stay dry in. Put the capsize hatch in a sensible location above the inverted water line.

Carry immersion suits for everyone you want to save in cold waters. You'd need them to survive in the raft anyway. Storage should be easier because you no longer have a raft to get in the way. Bonus points if the suits can be accessed from inside or outside if inverted.

Make sure your food and water storage is secure in the mothership, waves sweep things out and vents on water tanks tend to let the water out when upside down if not equipped with check valves.

The list could go on but first decide what you want to do. Without a doubt it is easier to find a capsized cat than a life raft.

[Thalas]

Well, with the mothership, not IN the mothership, hence the raft.

You did answer my question though that a life raft will sink if not deployed which will need to be figured out if the boat is inverted and the life raft is stowed in the center of the cockpit. All my training through ASA114 has addressed a slowly sinking boat where there is time to prep. I'd not thought to ask about how to handle it during a capsize where there is 10-15 feet of distance underwater from raft location to the transom. If deployed before clearing the transom, the raft bouyency would lodge it in cockpit and render it unusable.

[Cavalier MK2]

Check your specs to see if the canister has flotation, it varies. I call the life raft negative buoyancy because it is dead payload weight most of the time, hopefully. I'd really ditch it and prep the boat carefully with an area that can be used for survival. This is not new stuff, by the late 60s picking up steam in the 70s people were really working on this. Try to find a copy of "The Capsize Bugaboo" and pick up a reprint of Jim Brown's "The Case for the Cruising Trimaran". The boat is your best survival capsule offering better insulation than the thin skin of a raft. That is why you need immersion suits unless in the tropics. 2 raft things that can be fatal, 1 Too big, crew can't keep it upright and it is too large to share body heat. 2 The painters are often designed for monos to break when the boat sinks. Guess what happens when you break the umbilical with your nice floating, easy to find mothership? Anyhow check into alternatives, people these days seem to have missed some of the history, take a page from the racers.

[senormechanico]

All the photos I've seen of big catamarans with liferafts in cansisters had them mounted on the aft transom on centerline.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/...e0a2da4ae95223

[pathlesschosen]

I agree regarding staying with the mothership. But in case of fire plan B a life raft. However do everything possible to avoid plan B.

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

All the photos I've seen of big catamarans with liferafts in cansisters had them mounted on the aft transom on centerline.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/...e0a2da4ae95223

I don't want to go pulling a bunch of pics of different models for verification so I feel safe in saying I agree with you. Seems most pics of larger cats show the liferaft in that position or close to it

EDIT: Bad file upload, I guess I have to go back to school..

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by pathlesschosen

I agree regarding staying with the mothership. But in case of fire plan B a life raft. However do everything possible to avoid plan B.

In this case I'd use the dinghy/inflatable etc.... A tri though has to be more careful about weight than a cat.

Capsize solutions have taken a back seat with mainstream manufacturers because they are more expensive to build in and work against the sales routine touting the low chance of capsize. With primary sales going to transferring mono sailors a life raft is a easy add on as the audience is already sold on the concept.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

All the photos I've seen of big catamarans with liferafts in cansisters had them mounted on the aft transom on centerline.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/...e0a2da4ae95223

I was thinking of the FP, Leopard and the Nautitech, but you're right about the Lagoons.

During the drunken discussion my friend and I had at Avalon that led to this question, he said that in a major storm with breaking waves where he was that concerned about capsize, he would soak slices of bread with vegetable oil, squish them into balls and then start throwing them in a perimeter around the boat. The logic was that the oil would act as storm oil mitigating the waves in the wind, but quickly biodegrade as would the bread. How bad of an idea is this? Should I mock him or praise him?

[Jeannius]

At some point, you escape and are now on top of the inverted hull while your life raft is under the inverted bridge deck. If the life raft is neutrally buoyant, I could see diving underneath to free it and bring it past the transom. But if the life raft is positively buoyant, wouldn't it trap itself under the stairs or be impossible to free? Anyone know how this works?

As usual, Privilege is one of the best examples. Liferaft stored in the cockpit but accessible from above AND below. The bottom of the compartment is held in place by rods that go right across the compartment. In the highly unlikely event of being inverted, crawl out of the escape hatches, along to the underside of the cockpit, slide out the rods lift off the hatch and there is your liferaft.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

...for everyone you want to save...

Classic!

[mogulskibum]

Originally Posted by Thalas

How bad of an idea is this? Should I mock him or praise him?

The answer to the second question in no way depends on the answer to the first question. Should you mock him? Yes.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Should I mock him or praise him?

His sense of humour definitely deserves Praise..

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Thalas

The logic was that the oil would act as storm oil mitigating the waves in the wind, but quickly biodegrade as would the bread. How bad of an idea is this? Should I mock him or praise him?

Give you something to do I guess so maybe you wouldn't be depressed about how you were going to die

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Thalas

I was thinking of the FP, Leopard and the Nautitech, but you're right about the Lagoons.

During the drunken discussion my friend and I had at Avalon that led to this question, he said that in a major storm with breaking waves where he was that concerned about capsize, he would soak slices of bread with vegetable oil, squish them into balls and then start throwing them in a perimeter around the boat. The logic was that the oil would act as storm oil mitigating the waves in the wind, but quickly biodegrade as would the bread. How bad of an idea is this? Should I mock him or praise him?

If I was on a boat with him and he started doing that, I'd ask him to make me a sandwich...