Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-04-2017, 09:39   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 985
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulskibum View Post
The answer to the second question in no way depends on the answer to the first question. Should you mock him? Yes.
Yes. The real danger here is being pursued by Seagulls in search of croutons with salad dressing. Obviously it would never get a chance to work.
__________________

__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 10:01   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,703
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalas View Post
Are life rafts positive, neutral, or negatively buoyant?
Hmm....they are negatively buoyant above the waterline!

The hope is when deployed they are positively buoyant!

Since most have auto-inflate, they will be positively buoyant in a matter of seconds after capsize......???
__________________

__________________
DotDun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 14:47   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,800
Images: 69
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalas View Post
I was thinking of the FP, Leopard and the Nautitech, but you're right about the Lagoons.

During the drunken discussion my friend and I had at Avalon that led to this question, he said that in a major storm with breaking waves where he was that concerned about capsize, he would soak slices of bread with vegetable oil, squish them into balls and then start throwing them in a perimeter around the boat. The logic was that the oil would act as storm oil mitigating the waves in the wind, but quickly biodegrade as would the bread. How bad of an idea is this? Should I mock him or praise him?

Too slow! Much faster and more efficient to throw lamb chops. Oil is built in, and they're nicely balanced for throwing, and come with convenient handles.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 14:51   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 985
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Now the problem will be sharks......
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 14:53   #20
Registered User
 
mark_morwood's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cruising (Atlantic -> Med -> Carib -> Pacific)
Boat: Vancouver 36, Hobie 33, Catana 48, now all with new owners
Posts: 215
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Back to the original question - I believe all life rafts are positively buoyant even when not inflated, whether in a valise or canister. The standard deployment method I am aware of is to release the raft into the water (or get it overboard into the water) and then pull on the tether to trigger inflation. If the raft were to sink (negatively buoyant) while you were doing this it could be quite messy - e.g. raft inflating under the boat.

So if you are trying to get a raft out of an inverted boat with the access submerged, you will need to push it down to get it out.

It seems a pity on a catamaran where you have the option, to not have the liferaft mounted on the back of the aft crossbeam so that it can be "dropped" into the water with a simple release whichever way up the boat is.
__________________
mark_morwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 15:08   #21
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 9,397
Images: 14
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
Back to the original question - I believe all life rafts are positively buoyant even when not inflated, whether in a valise or canister.
Interesting question and I don't know if our is buoyant or not, but a quick strw pole of you tube suggest most float even without being inflated.

This could be a problem if its stored in a cockpit locker that is now upside down, but at least it won't drop out and sink.

__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 15:13   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,800
Images: 69
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Now the problem will be sharks......
The sharks will be your friends because you've been feeding them lamb chops.
Oily bread would have made them angry.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 15:28   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 985
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Not if they ate the seagulls.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 19:30   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 8,644
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Hmm....they are negatively buoyant above the waterline!

The hope is when deployed they are positively buoyant!

Since most have auto-inflate, they will be positively buoyant in a matter of seconds after capsize......???
But...hydrostatic realeses only trigger when they are some number of feet under water...not likely on a cat so not very useful in this scenario.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2017, 19:41   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 8,644
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

I used to have my liferaft mounted in canister on the foredeck...not the ideal solution on a cat. I switched to a valise which I hitch to padeyes on the aft "swim platform". This platform is between the hulls and above the water when right side up. Inverted it should be near the inverted water line, on the transom, and relatively easy to release.

I only stow it there for longer "offshore" runs...not likely to need it near shore.

I also keep a tarp in the dinghy to rig for exposure protection. Anywhere near shore, I would prefer the dink to a raft...head for shore.


Ditch bag is stowed in main salon where it should be not too difficult to access even inverted and transfered to raft/dink as needed.

I like having both options...options are good on a boat.

Fortunately, Ive never given these ideas a real world test...anyone wanna donate a cat to flip?
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2017, 01:33   #26
sb1
Registered User
 
sb1's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Cairns, Australia
Boat: Simpson Inspiration 10.5m
Posts: 24
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Fortunately, Ive never given these ideas a real world test...anyone wanna donate a cat to flip?
They always land on their feet.
__________________
sb1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2017, 03:11   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,800
Images: 69
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Not if they ate the seagulls.
OK, change of plan. Instead of lamb chops, throw mullet. Good and oily, and will attract dolphins who will rescue you if needed.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-04-2017, 07:14   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 985
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

The oil bag tradition is a old one and can calm breaking seas. I can see how you are trying to potential environmental charges by going organic. In terms of saving the bread crumbs or freezer space I suggest carrying a few cans of Exxon products and blame the sheen on old drift from the Valdez.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2017, 00:02   #29
Registered User

Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

There is a reason the rafts were invented, and is to save your life. All liferafts are suposed to comply legislations that apply everywere. Some are USA certified, others are CE certified, but there are common caracteristics:
-Must flotate even if not activated
-Must carry several survival items, such as water, food, knive, mirror, and so on.
-Must protect you from wheater.
-Must have an auto inflatable device.
And several others.

So, the answer is yes, it is positively buoyant.

I have seen rafts in every strange location in a boat, and it is not good at all. Must be in such a position that is easily accesible and really fast to deploy. Inverted or not. If you do not abide by this, you are endangering your life and your crew´s life.
some other boats have the raft attached with some strange stuff to make sure don´t get lost at sea. Should have a proper system that let you release it fast and in an instinctive way, not need to know how to untie certain knot.

Some other rafts are expired. This can be very worriesome, since the raft must be propely certified that the cilinder is going to inflate it, that provisions are not expired, that the rubber is still in parameters, that the activation mechanism is working, etc.

Also, you can get in trouble in the middle of the Altantic or just a mile from the marina. Keep your raft in the correct position always, no matter what.

And lastly: Dinghy is not for survival. Can´t protect you from rough seas, nor cold and sun, rarely there are provisions in it, nor water. They are not highly visible from distance, nor have radar reflectors. Gasoline in that boat can only take you a small distance.

I think we all need to be properly trained for such situations. There are formal instruction on how to respond to the emergencys, how to deploy the raft, how to use irs items, survival techniques, first aids, etc.
The better trained, the less time you spent thinking what to do in a hurry situation.

Hope I helped you.
__________________
Just a Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 05:34   #30
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 22
Re: Questions about capsized cruising cats and access to the life raft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalas View Post
Are life rafts positive, neutral, or negatively buoyant?

if the life raft is positively buoyant, wouldn't it trap itself under the stairs or be impossible to free? Anyone know how this works?
Of coarse they are positively buoyant in their canister, not much good if they sank before you got a chance to inflate them! A hydrostatic release wouldn't work if they didn't float from their cradle, as a ship sinks they are designed to cut away 1.5m to 4m depth. Hydrostatic's are not much use on a cat as they generally wont sink (unless its an alloy cat maybe?) but for the same reason it needs to be stored in an area on a cat that it can float free once manually released either right side up, inverted or accessed from the water, I would not store one in a cockpit deck or on a side rail. Outremer's location between the nets appears good but i think its to exposed, in rough weather it will get battered by waves, it may even get dislodged?, the bridge deck transom location is probably the best.
__________________

__________________
mal_l is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
capsize, cruising, size

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Life Barrel - Personal Life Raft/Immersion Suit AmericanVagrant Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 22 30-10-2016 20:20
Life Raft Questions Dockhead Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 22 26-02-2016 12:06
Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising? Nicks Health, Safety & Related Gear 221 28-01-2016 08:10
Access to Catamaran's Water-Tight Compartments when Capsized schoonerdog Multihull Sailboats 34 13-08-2011 15:36
WTB: Sat phone, Life Raft, EPIRB, Cruising Guides KevinE Classifieds Archive 0 16-09-2009 09:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.