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Old 06-01-2012, 08:49   #1
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Question for Gemini Sailors ...

One of my annoying tendencies is to overanalyze the heck out of something when making a decision. We're slowly circling being able to name a time to get serious about buying another boat and we've been studying coastal cruisers in the 10m+ range. The Gemini keeps floating to the top of the choices.

So I study the negatives. Bridgedeck slap at anchor is a consistent thread. I also understand that the forward bunk is uncomfortable while underway into bumps and potholes, so really, its all about sleeping while on the hook....am I correct? Please help me out, I have zero practical experience with this boat. Never even stepped on board one.

I was looking at the bow-on photo of Therapy at Gemini 105MC cruising catamaran for sale by owner
can see where some wave slap could get under there under some conditions.

Here's my question; What would you think about tying an inflatable dinghy
under the front of the bridgedeck? I am thinking of a dink with the outboard removed, tethered tight and bow forward, and those conical tail pieces stuffed up under the bridgedeck. Will it fit? Is it possible that this would work, while on the hook? If it would act as a fender and break up the wave slap, and be pretty easy to tie and retrieve. A painter on the anchor line could do it from that side. Anyone messing with the dink would likely wake you up. (Soon as you hear wave slap). Motor would be safe on board anyhow, to keep from hitting the hull. Would some carpet strips velcroed to the inflatable handle chafing?

Just an idea, but was curious enough to ask if anyone thinks it would work or not.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:54   #2
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

To me that sounds like a pretty radical solution. I would think the sound of the dinghy squeaking on the bridgedeck would be more annoying than the slap. Also if you were dragging anchor it would be a fire drill trying to remove the dinghy to reset the anchor. I think the bridgedeck slapping of the Gemini is something you either learn to live with or not. For me it was a deal breaker but it's no problem for others. I would suggest the Seawind 1000 but I don't think it has shallow enough draft for you. In a boat that size you have to compromise somewhere.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:57   #3
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

Hi Canibul:
We've owned a 2005 105Mc since new.
1) Bridgedeck slap at anchor: Very rare, but we tend to take full advantage of the shallow draft and tuck into the lee shore. Wave action bothers us long before slap does.
2) Highly recommend keeping a rear bunk for off-watch during passages, as the queen berth will experience a lot of up/down movement. We find the forward berth very comfortable and airy when anchored or smooth water.
3) I'd suggest forgetting the idea of a dinghy under the bridgedeck entirely...asking for a lot of trouble. The boat is designed very well to cut through waves, and you may do serious damage to both the gem and dinghy. And at anchor you'll just get slap with smaller waves that way. We keep our dinghy on the optional davits/hammock seat which is an AWESOME option...we spend a lot of time sitting there, and it's a great place underway for non-sailing guests to stay out of your way.
Hope this helps!
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:34   #4
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

Canibul,

We were anchored 75 feet in front of a Gemini 105Mc in Block Islands, Great Salt Pond. All we heard was wave slap out of the front of the Gemini like a loud speaker.
I do not know what that sound would be like from inside, but its not good from outside.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:45   #5
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When cruising with family, I'm up early and most passages happen...

... with the family asleep in bed. If the bunks were not comforatable in a reasonable violent seaway, we'ld never get anywhere, or I'ld be getting folks up when they didn't want to. No fun. I suggest you try the bunks while on sea trials on a rough day (never do sea trials on a nice day).

You really don't want to leave the dingy in the water at night.
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Old 06-01-2012, 13:34   #6
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

yeah, that makes sense. As I said up front, I have no experience with this boat yet, but am very interested in them. I have found explanations for the cosmetic blemishes in the Gemini owners manual (size of the mold dictates the method of fiberglass application, which they see as a trade off between cosmetics and strength), and from living here I recognize that many of the complaints about the drive leg are from likely due to sporadic or little maintenance of a mechanical device in salt water. this is a subject I know a little about.

We had already figured that we would probably be using the saloon table/bunk setup on any overnight passages. I'm not really worried about it, I'm an old, old hand at standing night watches on boats. Missing one nights sleep typically has little effect on me.
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Old 06-01-2012, 13:46   #7
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

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We had already figured that we would probably be using the saloon table/bunk setup on any overnight passages. I'm not really worried about it, I'm an old, old hand at standing night watches on boats. Missing one nights sleep typically has little effect on me.
We find a small salon berth handy, more so than fooling with moving the table. Should work about the same on the Gemini:
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Old 06-01-2012, 15:42   #8
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

Thanks for all the advice. I'm sure I'll keep charging off looking up specs and photos and reviews of any and all alternatives to the Gemini that I can find, up until we make a decision. I had read at one point that Tony Smith was planning to resurrect his Telestar trimaran production, and was looking forward to seeing what he came up with. But so far, Gemini keeps coming back to the top of the list for the compromises we think we need to make.

I have to admit that the existence of the Gem group online is a factor in making a choice. I've learned the value of being able to get assistance remotely over the internet since we've been here. I've done my own repairs and maintenance on a number of outboards and vehicles here, with the kind assistance of a variety of outboard and Land Rover experts I met online. Anything likely to break or need modification on a Gemini most likely has a procedure already thought out and tested somewhere in those 1100 owners.

Well, with one stupid idea of mine shot down, how about another?:
A program (or App) to monitor the frequency of bridgedeck wave slap at anchor, and to then match soft music to that beat to help sleepers? Tailored white noise, more or less.

Just kidding.

As for anchoring in close to minimize wave action, at what point do you come into gnatland?
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Old 06-01-2012, 16:27   #9
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

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As for anchoring in close to minimize wave action, at what point do you come into gnatland?
Varies of course. Full bug screen are always wise.

Perhaps 100-300 feet, depending on the specific bugs and their determination; less for mosquitoes, more for biting flies. However, if you cook a hot meal--the grill is the worst--they can follow the plume further.

Also, remember that whatever your draft, you should NEVER anchor in less than 4x the possible (including wakes) wave height. Breaking waves can cost you your boat. Even though my Stiletto would float on dew (12 inches) I would never anchor for the night or sail in less than 5 feet. Not much different than the PDQ, which draws 3.5 feet.
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Old 06-01-2012, 17:11   #10
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

Everybody is right so far.

Some can't stand it. Others it doesn't bother.

The slap occurs at the aft 1/3 to 1/4 of the deck. The dingy idea would do nothing but ruin a dingy, rub the gel coat off the undersides and create that fire drill at 2am like was mentioned.

I think you do need to at least go to a show and get on a couple of boats but really there is not much choice in the size you are looking at.

We coastal/day-sail almost exclusively and the times we were out over night slept on the convertible dinette. I have not ever tried one of the aft cabins myself because underway one can only have one (the cockpit one) porthole open and it is kind of stuffy. We are so used to the great "air" everywhere else it seems it would be that way. Plus it is hot in Florida and that makes it seem "more stuffy".

The first April we took off to be away on the boat I did not sleep well but it was not so much the noises (slap only being one, by the way) but my inexperience (recent anyway) and fear that kept me awake. I just knew we would drag, some rope would break, some boat would run us over, or something so I didn't sleep. I just listened to the noises and the slap when it occurred. Last April I slept a lot better feeling more secure in everything I was doing.

Go get on a few boats. Sail them if you can. Visit me if you want. Since mine is for sale I will be a great salesman.

It is a boat though..............
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Old 06-01-2012, 17:18   #11
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
Well, with one stupid idea of mine shot down, how about another?:
A program (or App) to monitor the frequency of bridgedeck wave slap at anchor, and to then match soft music to that beat to help sleepers? Tailored white noise, more or less.

Just kidding.


?
That kind of stuff actually exists but don't know how many amps it would draw.

I have a, partial at least, solution in my head from something I read about years ago but have not had time to persue it. I don't have time to even sail much now so maintance takes up my boat time. Projects are off burner.
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Old 06-01-2012, 19:57   #12
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

We've been on a few sailing catamarans, actually. Chartered a Fountaine Pajot (Tropical Attitudes) for a week in the Bahamas . Chartered the robertson & Caine for a week around the USVI and BVI, and have been aboard a variety of others passing through here, including Swinging on a Star (St. Francis 50) with the Abernethys, Randy and Hideko, and on Dancing Dolphin (Victory 35)with Crystal and Mike. Few others, here and there. One of the neighbors here has a Corsair 28R in the water here, and we've been on that and a homebuilt tri based here, as well. I am not even counting the monohulls.

Been thinking about maybe hitting Strictly Sail in Miami in February. Any idea how much time one should schedule to see what's worth seeing there? Pretty sure I don't need three days to look at a couple options.

and while maybe the dinghy idea is no good, the mechanics of that slapping at anchor seem to me to be something that might be fixable while the boat is on the hook. How bout a short section of that floating oil barrier stuff strung between the hulls under the bridge deck? Or a couple of noodles strung on a line? Don't you need to break the wave front up before it slaps the bare fiberglass?

Heck, I'm half deaf anyhow. I doubt it would bother me. I've heard a lot of boat noises in 40 years of going to sea.

We like Therapy, by the way, and think it would be a good choice for the two of us with a fifteen pound dog. But it's a few years too new for our budget. I'm guessing that when we find the right boat, it's going to be a 2002-2004ish 105Mc with a few options. We do wonder about the Screecher. We live in the trade winds here, but we might need to sail in some light air from time to time.
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Old 06-01-2012, 20:38   #13
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

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Varies of course. Full bug screen are always wise.

Perhaps 100-300 feet, depending on the specific bugs and their determination; less for mosquitoes, more for biting flies.
Matachen Bay in Mexico requires 1/4 mile MINIMUM to avoid "Jejeenes", or as the Mexicans called them, "Flying Teeth".
We used to anchor using radar, as the whole bay was 13 feet deep.
Having fans helps if you get one or more of the little buggers aboard.
They have a harder time finding you.
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Old 06-01-2012, 21:17   #14
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

I've never had water slap against the bridge deck while I was anchored. I get it while I'm under way with the right kind of chop and it's loud. You can feel the shock all over the bridge deck. I've taken to setting my laptop on the seat cushion instead of the dining table to protect it from jarring.

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Old 06-01-2012, 21:33   #15
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Re: Question for Gemini sailors..

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I have a, partial at least, solution in my head from something I read about years ago but have not had time to persue it. I don't have time to even sail much now so maintance takes up my boat time. Projects are off burner.
Have you filled the step on the inside of the hulls to eliminate wave slap? That seems to be where the wave slap at anchor comes from. The older Geminis didn't have that step, which may be why I haven't experienced any wave slap at anchor.

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