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Old 09-01-2013, 14:04   #1
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Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

I have been lurking around here for several months now and I was waiting to sell off my musclecar car collection to fund a boat ( and I have sold 2 of them)and I have a question for some of the seasoned sailors on the board about build quality from a Richard Woods designed cat (Flicka) to a Prout or a Gemini 105 MC...I wish it was more like Lagoon but they weren't Hemi Cuda's...lol....I was just wanting some input mostly for coastal sailing and island hopping around the BVI....I've never sailed before so I'm just getting my feet wet reading books watching youtube videos and picking up the lingo (which seems like I need Rosetta Stone more than youtube at this point) so many names of different parts on a sailboat to learn.....it sure looked easy when Captain Ron was running down in the movie, but that's Hollywood I guess...But I'm trying to stick to a budget from 80k to 100k to work with...planning on installing 4-235 watt solar panels and 2-2300 watt wind generators (Montana Wind Generators Models) and run 6 to 8 335 AH deep cycle golf cart batteries for my house batteries....I'm trying to make sure I have plenty power to run off the grid for extended periods without any problems....thanx for the input guys
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Old 09-01-2013, 20:06   #2
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

Sounds like you won't be short of amps!
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Old 09-01-2013, 20:15   #3
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

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Originally Posted by cat-a-cism View Post
I have been lurking around here for several months now and I was waiting to sell off my musclecar car collection to fund a boat ( and I have sold 2 of them)and I have a question for some of the seasoned sailors on the board about build quality from a Richard Woods designed cat (Flicka) to a Prout or a Gemini 105 MC...I wish it was more like Lagoon but they weren't Hemi Cuda's...lol....I was just wanting some input mostly for coastal sailing and island hopping around the BVI....I've never sailed before so I'm just getting my feet wet reading books watching youtube videos and picking up the lingo (which seems like I need Rosetta Stone more than youtube at this point) so many names of different parts on a sailboat to learn.....it sure looked easy when Captain Ron was running down in the movie, but that's Hollywood I guess...But I'm trying to stick to a budget from 80k to 100k to work with...planning on installing 4-235 watt solar panels and 2-2300 watt wind generators (Montana Wind Generators Models) and run 6 to 8 335 AH deep cycle golf cart batteries for my house batteries....I'm trying to make sure I have plenty power to run off the grid for extended periods without any problems....thanx for the input guys
On a cat of that size the weight of your battery pack could be a real negative.

Would be worthwhile considering a lithium battery pack at considerably less weight. LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks
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Old 09-01-2013, 20:34   #4
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

Got a link to these 2300 Watt wind generators? How big are they?
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:01   #5
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

While electrics, plumbing, electronics, etc are important they are only a secondary consideration. Its far to early for you to even think about that.

I started the same way several years ago, also waisted time thinking about that sort of stuff way before it really became a valid thing to worry about.

Get your feet wet first. Then consider your needs, get a boat and then work on that with regards to electrics and stuff.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:38   #6
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

cat-a cism, I agree completely with all of the comments above. The size and weight of the house battery bank that you are proposing (as well as the size of the solar panels and size and weight of the wind-generators) are just not realistic in the boats that you are considering. Furthermore, as has been pointed out, electrics and plumbing etc. should be secondary considerations, at best, in selecting a suitable boat for your purposes.

Comparing the boats you mention: I think Richard Wood's designs are terrific and would likely provide you with better overall performance than the Prouts and Geminis to which you also refer (bearing in mind that when not overloaded, the Gemini 105 performs quite well but for the effects of the minimal bridgedeck clearance). Build quality is another matter entirely, of course.

The quality of construction of the Flickas could vary widely. Was it an amateur build, or one done by a respected yard? In either case, what does a visual inspection (let alone a mandatory survey) reveal about the level of skill of the builder, the materials used, etc. The Prouts were, for the most part, well-built boats with proven longevity. Having said that, the bridgedeck clearance is also very low, performance to windward is relatively poor and, if considering the early double-enders, relatively poor even downwind. The Geminis, as already mentioned, actually perform quite well in most circumstances. However, they are plagued with stress cracks and are known to pound, even at anchor.

Have you considered the PDQ32? A bit more money than most of the older Geminis and Prouts, but an extremely well-built boat with good performance and decent bridgedeck clearance.

Brad
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Old 10-01-2013, 14:05   #7
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

Thanx for the great info Brad, that helps me alot in figuring out what type of cat is going to best fit what I need from my boat.... I do like the Cappella series PDQ with the dual dual outbards built into the aft hulls SS....I am wondering if the extra 150lbs in house batteries is an issue, wouldn't there be a pretty big difference in these pocket cruisers going from Diesels to outbards either dual or single? Seems like the diesels would be much heavier with the weight of the engine and the transmission driveline....I like diesels, but I'm also attracted to the ease of the outboards since they are pretty easy to replace ( the PDQ Cappella I saw had dual Honda 9.9 4 strokes) just trying to figure out the best path to take in power since I'm not going to need much in the way of having a big alternator with the wind gen and solar I'm going to run. BTW 44'cruisingcat those 2800 watt wind generators are from Missouri (not Montana, my bad) Wind Power, they're web site is Missouri Wind and Solar, DIY Wind and Solar Energy the unit I'm looking at is $895 with the 11 composite blades and frame attachment with rear directional fin. These wind generators are the AC/Delco series 10si/12si car alternators with PMA magnets and dual armatures and coils..for you gearheads that's the same alternators GM used in everything from Cadilacs to Chevrolets for well over 30 years throughout the 60's and 70's and 80's...they use a fine wire for the coils and permanent magnets on the armature to make power at real low RPM's...They sell a spray on the website you can coat the armature and coils with to keep the salt air from affecting the metals...they come unpainted so I guess its up to personal preference on what you want to coat them with on the outside.Looks like I'm going to have to reach deeper in the pockets to get a cat with a suitable bride deck height. I sure don't want to bring a knife to a gunfight ( The way things are going that maybe the only thing left the government hasn't outlawed and taken away)....thanx for the advice Brad....I'll aim a lil higher.....
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Old 10-01-2013, 14:23   #8
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

Realistically you shouldn't need all that electric power generating capacity, unless you have some specific high demand application in mind.

The solar and one wind gen should be more than ample 99% of the time. In fact just the solar and maybe a Honda Eu1 would suffice.

Re build quality - IMO an owner built boat may not be finished as nicely as a production boat, but the structural stuff, stuff that doesn't sell boats but is very important, is most likely done better.

A really poorly built boat should be easy to spot, because it will also be very poorly finished. A survey is a must either way.

Just had alook at the wind generator site. Those wind generators are BIG. You'd need to mount them very high to avoid people being hit by them. Also, they don't have slip rings, which would likely result in very twisted cables in a marine application.
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Old 10-01-2013, 18:01   #9
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

wow....never thought about the slip rings...thanx for that thought....how big of a wind generator (watts) would keep the batteries up in case of cloudy days if I wanted to run 6 house batteries....looking at the PDQ's...I like the layout of them....there's 1 in Georgia that's not too far from me....I'm in upstate SC and plan on keeping the boat in Charleston or just south of there...the PDQ is a Cappella...like the lines of it....they are asking 99K for it....not a bad price....twin diesels....looks like its been taken care of....thanx for the advice, it's helping me figure out what I need to get th job done and not get more boat than I need....
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Old 10-01-2013, 19:36   #10
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We cruise fulltime and (4) Kyocera 135 solar panels and a 420AH battery bank consisting of (4) Trojan T-105 batteries keep us happy. We've had this set up on our Atlantic 42 and our old PDQ 36/39'. Cold beer, movies every night, two laptops running several hours a day, fans, lights, anchor light and VHF radio 24/7.

On our old mono we had (2) Kyocera solar panels and one noisy wind generator, but with this setup it seemed we had to be more power conscious. I personally hated the wind generator and often turned it off. As back up a Honda EU-2000 generator is handy for a cloudy streak and power tool projects.

Highest power consumption occurs while underway on multi-day passages, generally at anchor power is never an issue for us.

If you're going with a catamaran, less is more in terms of weight. Long tern value might be achieved by going with more efficient systems in lieu of more charging and storage capacity.
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Old 10-01-2013, 19:51   #11
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-a-cism View Post
wow....never thought about the slip rings...thanx for that thought....how big of a wind generator (watts) would keep the batteries up in case of cloudy days if I wanted to run 6 house batteries....looking at the PDQ's...I like the layout of them....there's 1 in Georgia that's not too far from me....I'm in upstate SC and plan on keeping the boat in Charleston or just south of there...the PDQ is a Cappella...like the lines of it....they are asking 99K for it....not a bad price....twin diesels....looks like its been taken care of....thanx for the advice, it's helping me figure out what I need to get th job done and not get more boat than I need....
Sounds if you are on the right track.
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Old 10-01-2013, 23:25   #12
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

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On a cat of that size the weight of your battery pack could be a real negative.

Would be worthwhile considering a lithium battery pack at considerably less weight. LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks
2000+ AH at 12V of lead-acid batteries would just about sink a boat that size. If you want that much battery capacity, you need lithium phosphate batteries. See the thread which downunder kindly linked to above.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:16   #13
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Re: Question about build quality from scratch built to production models..

That wind turbine blades have a 62" span. The seagull carnage might get you in trouble with PETA. Your budget says tri.
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