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Old 05-08-2010, 08:20   #16
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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Folks, this needs to be about cruising, not about owning.
Then why does he want cat sailors to do their training on a racing cat?

I never said my boat was better, or worse, than any other boat--it was where the original thread came from! What is his/her multihull experience?
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:15   #17
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Originally Posted by SearenitySail View Post
Then why does he want cat sailors to do their training on a racing cat?

I never said my boat was better, or worse, than any other boat--it was where the original thread came from! What is his/her multihull experience?
"Thread drift" & "Jump the shark"....
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:24   #18
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I agree with not being able to "fix stupid".

There are way too many stupid people who lack common sense. If those same people spent 100 hours on a racing cat (or monohull) they'd still be stupid and probably still make the same stupid mistakes.

My wife and I are planning on getting a cat in the future and in the meantime have our 2nd charter trip planned and are going to continue to charter and get other experience until we're ready to get our own boat. Once we do get it, we'll spend a lot of time honing our skills and visiting areas along the east cost, carribean..etc and expand as we feel more comfortable. We certainly won't go out right away and sail around the world

No matter what training someone gets, if they don't have common sense, they could still get their boat and set off across the ocean on day 1.
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:26   #19
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double post
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:28   #20
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Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
... they could still get their boat and set off across the ocean on day 1.
Those aren't the people I worry about.

I worry about the jetski/wakeboard crowd hammering through crowded beaches at 30 knots. I've already had my windsurfer chopped in half by a ski boat whilst under sail. Literally, 6 square meters of bright red fabric did not register with the boat driver till he hit the board and severed it in two!

I've never felt similarly threatened (or damaged) by a poorly operated sailboat.
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Old 05-08-2010, 20:51   #21
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...I worry about the jetski/wakeboard crowd hammering through crowded beaches at 30 knots. I've already had my windsurfer chopped in half by a ski boat whilst under sail. Literally, 6 square meters of bright red fabric did not register with the boat driver till he hit the board and severed it in two!

I've never felt similarly threatened (or damaged) by a poorly operated sailboat.
Ahem...Thread drift?

What does that have to do with training catamaran sailors? Or are they the only ones who poorly operate sailboats?

Here's a little tongue in cheek--Maybe we should require all monohull sailors to train on Hobie Cats (or other beach cats). That way they might be better prepared to tweak some real speed out of their boats, rather than getting all gaga over .1 knots!!!

Or even worse, maybe they will even want to own a multihull someday!

Go ahead and censor me, I'm ready to pack up and permanently move to the Multihulls4Us forum for good after this thread anyway!

BTW, I am still waiting to see what eyeschulman's credentials are to make such a preposterous post!

Here's mine, and I am not afraid to post them, even though they might not be as extensive as some other members:

Catamarans/multihulls:
  • Owner: Hobie 14 1979-1981, Hobie 16 1981-2009, Lagoon 35ccc 2008-present
  • Race skipper: Hobie 16 1984-1996
  • Race Crew: Hobie 18 1980-1990, Stiletto 27 2006-2008, Hobie 18 Magnum 2008-2010
  • Catamaran Charter skipper BVI: 1997, 1999, 2003, 2009
  • Casual sailing: Dragonfly 920.
Monohulls:
  • Family owned: O'Day 22 1979-1981, O'Day 26 1982-1999
  • Delivery Crew: Bermuda-NY 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 2008 on C&C Redline 41, Swan 41 and NYYC Class Swan 42 (which is actually much faster than my Lagoon 35!)
  • Race Crew: Schock 35, and Melges 30
  • Cruise extensively: With friend on his Irwin 38 CC Mk II.
So I look at boats from both sides of the fence!

I still think this was a ridiculous thread with an ulterior motive, and without eyeschulman's having any obvious credentials to make such a preposterous statement it should have been headed off by the moderators!

Marshall
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Old 05-08-2010, 20:54   #22
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Searenity now! Thanks for a great post!
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Old 05-08-2010, 21:32   #23
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Man, this thread went wonky pretty quickly. Please allow me to step up on my soapbox and be "Mr. CoolPants" for a second while I attempt to bring a in a different point of view.

For a long time the sailing and cruising crowd has been an exclusive group of people with particular skill-sets well suited to things like...sailing. In the past few decades boats have been built stronger and more stable than ever. They have been loaded with machines and gadgets that do everything complicated you'd want them to do, steering/navigation/radar/weather prediction/refrigeration. This has effectively lowered the bar as boats these days no longer require very much skill or experience to operate.

Of course I expect some of you to be outraged by this notion. Many of you have sailing legacy, have lived on the water all your life, participated in races...and consider yourself a skilled sailor among sailors. What you must understand is that there are some people who want to sail, own a sailboat, go cruising on a sailboat, but are not very interested in the mechanics of sailing. These people need only concern themselves with the bare minimum of information so they can operate their boat safely, and on modern boats there is really not a lot to cover. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Mandatory untrue anecdote:

I have a car. I enjoy driving it on nice afternoons on scenic roads. One day a driving enthusiast approached me and said "Hey you extremely good looking wise person you. I noticed that you take corners awkwardly and don't accelerate at the apex. You should probably submit to a mandatory driving test given in formula one car to qualify to enjoy yourself on your own property." I outright laughed in his face. Not because he is wrong about me as a person, but because he doesn't understand that I don't think the way he does. I didn't wanna be part of his driving enthusiast club, I just wanted to enjoy myself in my car. I don't care about my driving technique just as many sailors don't care about their sailing technique. I think its fairly silly to hold them to my PERSONAL standards when they are having fun and (for the most part, as the record shows) doing it safely.

In closing, I do not consider myself a poorer sailor because I can't use a sextant. I consider myself a poorer historian. And if you ask me what it takes these days to become a sailor capable of enjoying yourself with some coastal cruising and perhaps a few passages...I'd only slightly more than the price of admission.
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Old 05-08-2010, 22:36   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SearenitySail View Post
Ahem...Thread drift?

What does that have to do with training catamaran sailors? Or are they the only ones who poorly operate sailboats?
.....
I still think this was a ridiculous thread with an ulterior motive, and without eyeschulman's having any obvious credentials to make such a preposterous statement it should have been headed off by the moderators!

Marshall
I advocated that all boaters operating anything powered should be licensed (which includes catamarans, as they are boats with auxiliary engines). I also stated that sailors aren't a problem, in my opinion - but the reality is if you need licensing for a minority you've got to have it for all.

Boating safety is a worthwhile subject and not confined to catamarans. I've been too close to serious injury as a result of others recklessness to have any faith in the common sense of strangers. Yachting Monthly has a lovely picture of a trimaran with the amah torn off by a jetski, and the Vancouver papers had a photo of a skiboat fully embedded inside a houseboat. Quite frankly, all the sailing skills in the world amount to nothing when compared to a fool piloting a high powered vessel.

The OP was addressing boating safety albeit in an odd fashion. As to his suggestion regarding mandatory training on racing cats - well that's just not going to happen. Nor should it.

PS - The reference to thread drift & jumping the shark was directed at the OP. You asked "Why does he want cat sailors to do their training on a racing cat...." and I was inferring that he was perhaps doing a bit of trolling.
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Old 05-08-2010, 22:46   #25
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Originally Posted by Event_Horizon View Post
For a long time the sailing and cruising crowd has been an exclusive group of people with particular skill-sets well suited to things like...sailing. In the past few decades boats have been built stronger and more stable than ever. They have been loaded with machines and gadgets that do everything complicated you'd want them to do, steering/navigation/radar/weather prediction/refrigeration. This has effectively lowered the bar as boats these days no longer require very much skill or experience to operate.
That's true, but the bright side is that it brings more people into boating which has clearly improved the variety of boats available at affordable prices. Of course, as you say, the down side is that a lot of really interesting skills are dying out.

We're all specialists now - you're no longer a yachtsman but rather a dinghy sailor, cat sailor, racer, cruiser, power boater, etc...
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Old 05-08-2010, 23:03   #26
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Common sense cannot be legislated.
Unfortunately, that doesn't keep politicians from trying.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:24   #27
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I am bemused by this post - I have no problem in discussing Cruising BOATS and the pros and cons of Cruising BOAT licenses, I fail to see why we should be discussing a particular type of boat.

Strange.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:25   #28
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What do you thgink about the idea of having every new(to multi) cruseing cat owner spend 20 or more Hrs as crew on a raceing multi.I am seeing more and more statements on this site of people who either have never sailed or sailed little with the intention of buying a big cat moveing aboard and taking off. Why a raceing multi? because they get pushed to brink and the skipper and crew have to learn that there is a brink and how to avoid it. While monos have there brinks they usually give warnning and scare the crew enough to change the tactics a big cat will give the ignorant little warning before the brink.
This is the usual crud from a person who quite obviously has no idea of the differences between shorthanded big cruising catamarans, and performance cats,

What are my credentials for this - well aprt from a number of years as the foredeck gopher on a racing mono + cruising monos, I have also owned a cruising cat for over 20 years.
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:39   #29
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What are my credentials for this - well aprt from a number of years as the foredeck gopher on a racing mono + cruising monos, I have also owned a cruising cat for over 20 years.
Keep in mind that the credentials for posting on the internet are a computer, keyboard, and presumably a minimum of between one digit (for females) and none (for guys). Maybe the OP was throwing an idea out for discussion or maybe it was a windup - either way, take the bait and have a bit of fun with it...
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Old 06-08-2010, 13:09   #30
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Is there any reason a monohull sailor would start this thread?
Maybe because OP figured multihill owners knew everything they could provide an answer?

But of course he forgot about the mandatory SOH bypass that is an essential part of owning a Flipper.................
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