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Old 20-05-2008, 08:51   #16
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Originally Posted by muskoka View Post
Actually, the B385 sport rig carries about 825 sf of sail versus the standard rig at 740 sf.
.
Not corect. The correct figures are (now) 971 sf and 838 sf respectively. The Sport rig had a shorter mast, and the same sail area as the 'easy rig' but underperformed it. BB has increased the mast hight of the Sport (they are now the same) to make the performance better. The 740 sf figure for the Easy Rig was never correct.

Windward performance is as good as most monos.

Troutbridge, you CAN tack the screacher through gap, though there is a knack. The screecher sheets are long enough to gybe around the front if you prefer.
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Old 21-05-2008, 00:10   #17
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Is it Cat men that fuel the Cat-Mono debate. Thanks to Moby for data as above.
I/We are going horthand cruising. Cats fall over (maybe) if go looking for performance and push too hard. Fast release fore sheets must be a safety factor on the 'Rear Set Mast Rig (Prout's easier but they don't hold the patent). My pint really was that access to a bouncy oredeck is limited to moderate weather to make the boat gale proof in terms of securing the foresheet, even removing the roller reefing to get weight low, and putting up a heavy storm stay sail, ideally on a roller, depends how big it is. After that sailing is done fom the cockpit occasionally and the cabin mainly.
C R U I S I N G. Warm, dry, sleeping time (if there's two of you).
Please. How many keep a good lookout in bad weather. Can you see enough, can you manouvre enough, is it better to strap in and stay put when it gets really bad.
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Old 21-05-2008, 01:15   #18
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Catty, I agree with you with respect to convenience/performance while sailing downwind and can add, it is also much easier to fly a spinnaker while keeping the smaller mainsail up. I can also drop the main without worrying about using the mainsail/mainsheet to replace the strength of the backstays that are missing in mainsail dominated fractional rigs.

Yes, it is a tremendous rig for cruising - although in my experience, there is still a performance disadvantage when close reaching/beating over higher aspect jibs/genoas, or while beam reaching as against the larger, flat top mainsails. That being said, it is a trade-off I am happy to make for precisely the reasons you indicate - we are cruising, afterall.

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Old 21-05-2008, 06:50   #19
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Looking at the gap whilst I type this, I'll take your word for it if you've done it....but it must be one hell of a knack
Eleven: Don't think you'd want to be messing about removing the sail from the furling gear in a rising gale. Having given this a great deal of thought and read numerous blogs of cat-cruisers who've found themselves in 'difficult' circumstances (including Maxingout on this forum)I'm not convinced about the wisdom of trysails/stormsails on a cat. I've gone down the route of having a series drogue and a para-anchor. I've sailed in bad (relatively) weather. Personally I keep a lookout as there's no point in making a bad situation worse. Mind you, that does depend a bit on where you are at the time. Near to land or shipping lanes I'd be keeping a lookout, in the middle of the Atlantic/Pacific I'd deploy either the drogue or para-anchor & put the kettle on.
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Old 22-05-2008, 01:22   #20
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Our BB42 has a gennaker / reacher on the forward forestay with the standard genoa on the normal forestay. As Troutbridge has said there is not much of a gap to tack such a large sail through. Moby has sailed the 385 so if he has worked out the knack required to tack it then congratulations to him !!! Personally I would think you might get it right 1 in 4 tacks, the rest of the time you could end up in a bit of a mess.

Having said that our gennaker sheets are rigged around the front of the sail so you have to gybe the sail rather than tack it, seeing as the gennaker is not designed to be used hard on the wind this seems to make most sense to me. When gybing you are not in such a rush to get through the wind as when tacking so you are able to take more time through the turn to allow the sail and sheets to gybe around smoothly and it does seem to work pretty well for us, even though there is only me and Sue on board. Troutbridge - I think BB always intend the reacher to have the sheets rigged to gybe rather than tack - so your sheets should be long enough, maybe they were just tied on wrong - well worth checking I should think.

It is also pretty easy to furl the sail and then unfurl it on the other side, so you have the two options. The gennaker is not standard equipment on any of the BB's but I would say it should be an almost essential extra, it gives a big increase in off wind sail area and it is very easily handled. You also then have two headsails so you can pole out the std genoa to wind with the gennaker set to leeward for a very easy downwind rig. If neccesary you can run the gennaker sheet through a snatch block on the end of the main boom to effectively pole it out as well for light winds.

On our 42 the gennaker is the same area as the mainsail so we have the same total sail area when using twin headsails as when using main and genoa. Overall the setup works very well. Just to clarify the 42 does have the mast stepped at the front of the coachroof like the BB385 Sport Rig but the principles are much the same.
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Old 22-05-2008, 04:30   #21
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I'm at MultiHull World at the moment so I'll ask. They may well be long enough, but I'm having difficulty visualising how this would work if the wind was anywhere other than about 40deg either side of the stern. I've found my screecher works OK with the apparent wind to just forward of the beam, in which case I don't think the set up as I'm picturing it would work.
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Old 22-05-2008, 05:25   #22
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Hi Troutbridge,

I can understand your concerns but in practice it is never a problem. The lazy sheet simply drapes at the bottom of the sail on the furling drum, when you gybe you simply ease the current working sheet and pull in the lazy sheet to be the new working sheet as the sail gybes around the forestay.
When furling the sail it is always best to pull in the lazy sheet a bit as the sail is furled to help prevent the snarl up you are worrying about. We have never had the lazy sheet furl into the sail in 2 1/2 years.

Pass on our regards to Mark & Audrey at Multihull World, we bought Nimrod from them 2 1/2 years ago.

Cheers,

Chris
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Old 22-05-2008, 09:52   #23
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Yes, had a chat with Mark about this. Apparently mine is set up like that, but as I've not had a chance to use it yet I never noticed! Everybody said 'Hi'
Peter
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Old 26-05-2008, 23:08   #24
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Aftmast Rig, Single-Masted Ketch

I would have to say the Prout rig certainly did have an influence on my early thinking when I was first working out my aftmast, mastaft, 'single-masted ketch' rig concept. It has been a very tough sell though.

So it was interesting to run across this forum discussion that I had not seen before. And I was surprised my rig was not mentioned in the discussions.

I will reference these discussions of you folks out there sailing with this 'aft style' rig on my forum discussion at BoatDesign.net

And likewise I invite you to read a few of my contributions to the subject on those forums HERE
AftMast Rigs
Aftmast rigs??? - Boat Design Forums

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Old 27-05-2008, 05:41   #25
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Brian,

I have referenced your design several times here.
I remember your answer to my question "Why have I not seen it around much" being that sailors are slow to change. I witness that with how many still sail monos. Fine really because dockage would really be difficult!
Now I wonder what you think of using an A-frame for some of that intensive standing rigging needed in your design.
Again, if I had the dough I would be having my ideas being built.
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Old 27-05-2008, 06:35   #26
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I see there is a lot to read in the boat design forum.
Whew!
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Old 27-05-2008, 20:06   #27
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Brian,
I have referenced your design several times here.

Now I wonder what you think of using an A-frame for some of that intensive standing rigging needed in your design.
Something like these discussions???

Variations on the Mast Aft Rig Concept
Boat Design Forums - View Single Post - WishBone Sailing Rig

WishBone Sailing Rig - Boat Design Forums

Greenway Wishbone Mast
Boat Design Forums - View Single Post - WishBone Sailing Rig

Main-less Rig
Main-less rig - Boat Design Forums
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Old 27-05-2008, 20:14   #28
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Yea. I spent most of last night and some of today reading that stuff.
There are ideas out there. I wish I had the money to test some.
Of course if I had the money I would just get a boat and leave for a while, not worrying about stuff.
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Old 13-06-2008, 09:40   #29
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Prout Rig references on this forum

I've added a few references to Prout rigs here on this forum under "Ketch Rigged Cats". Please join in, owners

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...cat-13937.html
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Old 16-07-2008, 15:51   #30
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I'm sticking my nose in again because I'm a little closer to putting money in the sea.
Posts 12 and 13 give opposite views, my brothers practical and clinical approach suggests that no boat is perfect, no sail set up is right. Talk to three sail makers and put your money where the sense is and hope you are right. That can do far more for sailing performance if you've described your requirements adequately. My preference is for good light wind performance, safe heavy wind sailing. UK to Med and back each year I'll need all of that. Has anyone extended thoer mast with a splice at the foot?
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