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Old 19-04-2012, 07:48   #1
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Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

Hi ya all... I think after looking at them all again at the Miami SS show, I am focused on getting a Lepoard 46 but don't think I can afford a new one... I ultimately want an Owner's version but looking at them on YW there is a huge price difference (about $200k) between asking price for a used Owner version that has never been chartered and those coming out of the Moorings service. Besides being much more "used", seems to me one would be much better off getting one out of charter and upgrading and modifing the owners hull themselves and still be many dollars ahead and have all new stuff.... I am missing something ??? Would you seasoned and more experienced folks go the charter route and fix it up yourself ?

Thanks
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Old 19-04-2012, 08:13   #2
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

capcook,

Making a 4 cabin Leopard 46 into a 3 cabin owners versions is a huge job and you would need cabinet making skills or hire those skills. I have built 4 new homes and remodeled many more and would dread doing a gut / remodel on a boat hull.

That $200,000 is for all the upgrades that a private owner put in their boat also.
Has better electronics, water maker more sails. Its ready to go.

Charter boats need lots of things fixed and dents and damage that you would never be able to fix without great expense. You would end up living with it.
Re-sale will also be affected for the life of the boat.

That $200,000 may only be $150,000 in this buyers market.

I have charted many times and see how that business works. Make money using the boat hard for five years then unload them as they need a refit, do the min. to sell them and start the cycle again.

My money would go with finding a 2nd hand owners version that has not been in charter.
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Old 19-04-2012, 18:33   #3
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

Thanks Cotemar....

I have also built/remodeled houses etc but zero experience with boats... still I figured I could put in some "sweat equity" and end up with a better boat....


"That $200,000 is for all the upgrades that a private owner put in their boat also. Has better electronics, water maker more sails. Its ready to go."

Probably true, but you can replace a lot of electronics and sails for $100k and then they would be brand new...

"That $200,000 may only be $150,000 in this buyers market."

I kinda figured that the $200k difference would still be there in that the Charter will end up being negotiated down a bit too... but maybe not as much as the non-chartered owners version...

"My money would go with finding a 2nd hand owners version that has not been in charter"

Probably wise advice, but if I don't get one out of Charter I would probably have to go to my second choice... a Lagoon 420...

Thanks again, I really appreciate the input...

cheers
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Old 19-04-2012, 18:53   #4
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

capcook,

Your second choice is a good choice. A Lagoon 420 holds its value and are well built.
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:01   #5
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

I would think it would depend on the modifications you want to make. I've kicked around the same arguments and would be hard to convince to spend the extra $200K. For that kind of money you could drop in some new engines, electronics and a sail or two and still have money left over.

Provided you find an ex-charter that will pass a good inspection, I kind of favor the charter boat route. There are certainly more to chose from and you aren't paying for a lot of old gear that maybe you don't need or want.

But then there's the modification you want to do and that could be the killer. Personally, just to convert a cabin to storage/workshop should not cost a bundle provide you are willing to have it look like what it is.

That's my 2 cents.
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:22   #6
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

Making a 4 cabin Leopard 46 into a 3 cabin owners versions would be the biggest challenge. My skill sets are very good, but this would be pushing my limits. If you did a good job the boat would have good re-sale, but if you were not able to then its value would go down or even make it hard to sell.

I was very interested in a boat a few years back, but when I went through the boat and found that the 2nd head was gutted and made into a utility room this boat was instantly off our list.
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Old 20-04-2012, 00:47   #7
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$200,000 for a couch down in the hull that you probably will never use and a bigger shower? That's enough cash to outfit your boat and go cruising for a good 5-7 years. Believe me the showers are big enough on the 4 cabin version.

Save the money and go sailing now!

CJ
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Old 20-04-2012, 05:38   #8
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

It wouldn't cost much to convert from a charter to an owners version. Most of the bathroom fittings could be re-used and it would not be a complex process to fit some roof lining, a wall unit and a couch.

If it costs $10k+ to build a bathroom in a house, it wouldn't cost that much in a boat considering all the hoses, pumps, holding and the like are present, it's just a matter of moving them. The most complex part would be "building" the shower unit as that would somehow need to be fabricated, although there are definitely fibreglass ones available that would be suitable, I've seen them in hotels. The whole bathroom shell would be available from Leopard if they are still selling that model.
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Old 20-04-2012, 06:07   #9
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

We went through the exact same thought process when buying our Leopard. Although it's a L40 we still wanted the dedicated owner's hull... After looking at the price differences between the owner's versions and a 4 cabin out of charter we went with the charter version.

Ended up finding a good boat that had been out of charter for a year where the prior owner had already worked out most of the post-charter gremlins and added lots of upgrades that were also to our taste (genny, A/C, big dingy engine, etc...)

Either way, you'll be the happiest guy alive once you get out on the water so long as the boat is physically sound.

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Old 20-04-2012, 06:18   #10
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Holiday View Post
$200,000 for a couch down in the hull that you probably will never use
Clearly for some being able to lie on the couch looking at a "real" boat is worth that:-



(don't blame me for the interior decoration ).
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Old 20-04-2012, 07:02   #11
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene80 View Post
We went through the exact same thought process when buying our Leopard. Although it's a L40 we still wanted the dedicated owner's hull... After looking at the price differences between the owner's versions and a 4 cabin out of charter we went with the charter version.

Ended up finding a good boat that had been out of charter for a year where the prior owner had already worked out most of the post-charter gremlins and added lots of upgrades that were also to our taste (genny, A/C, big dingy engine, etc...)

Either way, you'll be the happiest guy alive once you get out on the water so long as the boat is physically sound.

Gene
S/V Kalalau
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Old 20-04-2012, 08:17   #12
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

The modifications we want to make I think would not be that extensive... we don't want the couch, rather we would like to have storage units, so that will require a cabnet guy... moving the shower to the front of the hull should not be insurmountable and then we wanted to add a washer/dryer compartment... On of the beds remains unchanged... so I think it is possible but thanks so much for all the great input and "watch outs" on charter boats... great points !!!
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Old 20-04-2012, 08:29   #13
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

capcook,

Yes, I agree the couch is a little to much.
If you e-mail Leopard they may send you a picture of another layout they have that has all cabinets floor to ceiling where the couch is.
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Old 20-04-2012, 09:15   #14
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

I don't know about you, but an extra 200k or even 150k would be enough to help me love the slightly imperfect charter version. I equate that amount with more than a few years of cruising kitty. For me I'd rather deal with the lack of a couch in the Caribbean...
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Old 20-04-2012, 09:46   #15
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Re: Pros Cons Charter vs Non-Chartered

Depends on how the particular charter boat looks aesthetically. If pretty good, then just add up what you need to do and see if it's worth it. My concerns would be: replace engines, sail condition?, Has the boat been grounded hard? (I've seen more than one charter boat on a reef awaiting help) You are right that if you spend $50-$100k on a charter boat, at least the stuff would be new. GPS/Plotter, Radar, autopilot, engines, sails, watermaker etc can add up pretty fast... still, $50 k will buy a lot........ and you wont have to worry about getting hull dings in that brand new boat!
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