Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-08-2009, 17:12   #16
Registered User
 
Strygaldwir's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Deale, Maryland
Boat: SeaView - Privilege 37
Posts: 1,020
Images: 5
There are always going to be challenges fixing stuff in remote places. I do have Sail drives, I do like them. No issues so far. I have however seen on catamaran that had to have the lower seals replaced because his oil was getting milky. Turns out his shaft was slightly bent and he had to have them replaced. I guess he hit something!

I have read another account of someone having to replace a leaking seal. He beached his cat and replaced it that way.

I both these instances they are not the seals at the hull, they are in the lower leg and seal the shaft. I have yet to replace mine. I guess that is an item for next haul.

Having said all that! I don't like that I have to haul my boat to completely change the gear oil. But, there is another thread on that issue is something like SD-20 issues.
__________________

__________________
Strygaldwir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2009, 17:33   #17
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig boorman View Post
Just fixed the seals on my sail drives, one was leaking in seawater for 8 months, only used that engine for docking and changed gear oil about once a month. I was worried about it but haul out wasn't sceduled till last week. I have sd50 yanmar drives and had yanmar mech. do the work, once all was opened we were impressed on how simple and strong those gears were, the mech. said still looks new and no ware. I will do this work myself next time and I may do this work underwater if needed. It can be done.

Craig I'd be interested in how you change out the seal while the boat is still in the water. Could you give a brief explanantion?
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2009, 21:11   #18
Registered User
 
Atlantic42's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Alameda, California
Boat: Chris White Atlantic 42
Posts: 104
Images: 17
The sail drives on my Atlantic 42 are twelve years old and still in excellent condition after about 3500 hours of operation.

Often the engine room on a boat with sail drives can be totally isolated from the accommodation isolating nasty smells and heat. Especially, if you plan to operate the boat in the tropics.
__________________
David Kane
www.dksail.com
Atlantic42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 08:01   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Mike View Post
I've not had much experience with saildrives, but I wonder about failure of the gaskets/boots/seals whatever you call them.

It is my understanding that the majority of these failures are primarily exceeding the service life of the gasket (about 7 years), and secondarily poor installation using the wrong material.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 09:37   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
Who do you think has the best cats w/ saildrives and who has the best shaft drive cats? I really want to make the right choice. I'm looking in the 44-50 ft range. I will be living aboard for a few years so i want to get it right. Full disclosure, I'm not mister fix it, but I do know one side of a hammer from another.
__________________
jokler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 10:29   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hampton, VA
Boat: 45'=not anymore
Posts: 326
Send a message via Skype™ to xxuxx
Sail Drives

Given 2 identical sailing cats, one with sail drives and one with conventional shaft drives, the one with sail drives will be sailing faster.
__________________
xxuxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 10:35   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
jokler - I don't think I would let that be the deciding factor. There are so many other things to consider. For instance, even though I prefer shafts, I would rather have a boat with saildrives and high bridgedeck clearance than vice-versa. It boils down to the combination of factors that appeal to you.
__________________
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 11:35   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
My Endeavourcat 44 has two yanmar SD40 saildrives. These saildrives do not have the best reputation for reliability and were superceded by the SD50 model after only a few years on the market. The biggest reliability issue seems to be the cone clutches on this model though I have personally not had any problems with the cone clutches at about 1300 hours. I probably should not have said that and will have a cone clutch failure next time I start the things, so knock wood. I have had two issues with my saildrives. The first was a prop shaft seal failure precipitated by getting some monofilament line wrapped around it in the ICW. Just like outboard engines these prop shaft seals are vulnerable to being cut by monofilament line. The second was I had a front main seal failure on the transmission section while in the Bahamas. This sprayed about a quart of 90 weight oil around my engine room over about a 4 week period. Both of these failures happened on the same trip on opposite drives so I did not have an option of not using the problem drive. When I got back I had the boat hauled to repair the drives. Sourcing the prop shaft seals in the US was a problem, they wanted me to wait on the hard for 3 weeks while they were shipped in from Japan all the while running up yard charges to the tune of $44 a day. I got on the internet and had them shipped overnight from the UK for $35 shipping. I paid the exact same amount after currency conversion that I would have paid in the states plus the shipping or about $55 a piece (2 required). I noted when I got them they were standard 34x52x8 mm viton shaft seals. These are available from a local supplier for about $4. The main shaft seal was not so straight forward. The spring in the failed seal had worn a groove in the pilot shaft and that also had to be replaced. It seems that the springs in the seals are much harder than the shafts and if you run them for any length of time after the seal fails you are likely to damage the shaft beyond repair. Technically the front main seal repair could have been done in the water by moving the engine forward about a foot.

While they were out I had the hull seals replaced as they were 6 years old and replacement was recommended at 2 years. I also had the hull boots replaced as they were also 6 years old and pretty ratty looking. A previous post on this thread may have suggested that the boots are the seal, they are not! The boots meerly streamline the hull opening where drive passes through the hull. These boots accumulate a lot of fouling as paint won't stick to them. Scraping the fouling off tends to damage the boot over time. It does not affect the drive seal. The double drive seal is located up in the hull at the saildrive mount. Note that after 6 years in the water that there were no barnacles or any other marine growth on the primary seal. In fact I was hard pressed to tell any difference between the seals being removed and the ones being put in. I kept the old seals as spares though I can't imagine these things failing as they are quite heavily made. It seems to me that replacing them after 6 years was probably a waste of money and replacing them on a two year cycle as Yanmar recommends is insane.

Changing the oil in these units is a pain and requires vacuuming the 90 weight out from the bottom of the unit when in the water. Despite having a tube that goes to the bottom of the unit, 90 weight does not readily flow when cold. And actually getting all the oil out takes several stages of pumping, allowing the oil to settle to the bottom of the unit, pumping again, etc. It usually takes 4 cycles on each unit to get all of the oil out, each time allowing an hour for the oil to settle. This makes changing the oil on both drives an all day effort. When the boat is out of the water it is a simple matter to open the drain on the bottom and the vent on the top and drain it into a bucket for about an hour.

Another issue is changing Zincs, I have autostream props which means that standard zincs don't quite fit and need to be filed down. The split zincs (available @$250 each) that are supposed to be changable without removing the prop don't work either so zinc changing is a special problem for me. A standard folding prop would be easier, at the sacrifice of reverse thrust.

As for the example of the cat that lost its saildrives in the collision with the whale, my understanding is that there was no water intrusion outside of the engine compartments and the collision had not put the boat in jeopardy of sinking. The problem was that the collision had destroyed the rudders as well and the boat had no steerage and that was the reason she was abandoned. I suspect that the same thing would have occurred with a shaft drive and the boat would still have been abandoned.

I guess the question is would I trade my sail drives for shaft drives and I believe to be honest I would say yes. Would I not buy a boat just because it had saildrives, no. If you look at Endeavour's web site it appears that they now supply shaft drives on their new boats. I'm not sure if this is because of reliability issues or because it allows them to use the same molds for their power cats and sail cats.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 11:51   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
I didn't want to startanother thread but I'm looking at this boat and wanted your opinion. I haven't made a serious enquiry yet. If you would like to keep your comments private that is fine by me. Here is the link... MANTA 42' LONG REACH Used Catamaran For Sale
__________________
jokler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 12:12   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by jokler View Post
Who do you think has the best cats w/ saildrives and who has the best shaft drive cats? I really want to make the right choice. I'm looking in the 44-50 ft range. I will be living aboard for a few years so i want to get it right. Full disclosure, I'm not mister fix it, but I do know one side of a hammer from another.
IMHO the St Francis 44 or 50 takes a lot of beating. These can be either sail drive or shaft depending on owners requirement so make up your own mind based on your requirements.

Owning a boat is a very personal thing, everybody has different requirements, and definintions of acceptable compromises. What you need to do instead of this feverish scratching around, is to start working out what your boat must have, what you want it to have, what you dont want but would accept, and what you will not accept. Then you start looking at contenders and seeing where they lie, and finally at costs, and you will (unless you are Mr Moneybags) probably then have to compromise somewhere. But that compromise will be an informed one based on your own specific requirements. This way you will end up with a vessel you will be happy with for many years (if you do it properly) rather thanone you want t o change after six months.

This is what I did when I bought my first boat, and I sold her last year after over 20 years of ownership.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 12:34   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
We looked at Mantas pretty hard before we bought our Endeavourcat. The thing to remember is that the original Manta design is a 38 footer. Though Manta has stretched the design by adding length to the rear steps they have not made any significant changes to the interior room. It's still basically a 38. We have one berthed next to us and the owners were astounded by how much bigger our boat is inside. Other 44 footers are huge inside by comparison to the Manta. This is probably a generalization about all boats not just Mantas, but 2008 was a bad year for boat prices which was fed by the cost of oil. You might get just a good a boat for a lot less money by stepping back a couple of years. The other thing to remember is that Manta went out of business, so I'm not certain what the service situation is but it's not likely to be good. It might be a consideration if you make an offer.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 12:45   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
I appreciate your comments Talbot. I agree that it's a personal decision when buying a boat. However this is a great forum with a bunch of people with knowledge and opinions. That's why I'm "scratching" around and reading all of your posts so I can move on to make a confident purchase. I'm compiling all of my needs and wants but when I have a decision to make during this process I float a thread out to see if my thoughts match up with the groups. I will then make the final call and live with it knowing I asked as many questions as I could and researched all possibilities. I'm not in a rush.
__________________
jokler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 13:02   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
You make some great points Capt. Bill I don't want to feel cramped and buying a newer boat for a company that is out of biz makes no sense...My 2nd choice was this boat; ALLIAURA MARINE 49' IMHOTEP Used Catamaran For Sale It seems a little expensive for a 2001 but I love all the "green" power on the boat. The concern I see is 2500hrs on the sail drives, it doesn't seem like a lot of time for an '01 but I wonder for the asking price how much I'm going to have to put into it and what I could actually get this boat for. I guess that will all come out in the wash when I have it inspected if I decide to move fwd.
__________________
jokler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 13:24   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
I can't comment too much on the Privilege design since I've only seen them in boat shows. Don't get my comments about the Mantas wrong, they are well made, well performing boats, it's just you should be aware of how the issues might affect your offer price. If you're looking in the .5 million range you should be able to get a pretty nice boat. If you're willing to go back as far as 2001 you should get a very nice boat indeed. Certainly a lot more boat than a Manta.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2009, 13:26   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
I'm looking at Endeavour's site right now. I will let you know....
__________________

__________________
jokler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
saildrive

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pros and Cons of a Saildrive? Being There Monohull Sailboats 9 10-10-2016 01:57
Cat Ketch Pros and Cons MAG1 Monohull Sailboats 28 08-06-2015 00:07
Cape Dory 36? Pros and Cons outthere09 Monohull Sailboats 12 18-02-2009 21:01
Pros and cons of an aluminum cat sandy daugherty Multihull Sailboats 9 05-02-2009 05:27
Liveaboard - Pros & Cons Matthew Venable Liveaboard's Forum 48 17-01-2007 11:20



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.