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Old 26-05-2009, 11:14   #271
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Greg! Glad you got it out. It is heavy, isn't it!?

When I pull mine, I was in a yard, I knew I was going to pull it, so I had them set the boat as high up as they could. I then only had to dig down a foot or so to pull it out.

What do you think the bushings are made out of? I thought someone told me Delrin. But someone else mention it does not expand in water. ( A search found the following quote however "DelrinŽ material has high heat resistance, low moisture absortion, high mechanical strength and has good mechanical stability." So perhaps it is Delrin)
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Old 26-05-2009, 12:15   #272
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Greg! Glad you got it out. It is heavy, isn't it!?

When I pull mine, I was in a yard, I knew I was going to pull it, so I had them set the boat as high up as they could. I then only had to dig down a foot or so to pull it out.

What do you think the bushings are made out of? I thought someone told me Delrin. But someone else mention it does not expand in water. ( A search found the following quote however "DelrinŽ material has high heat resistance, low moisture absortion, high mechanical strength and has good mechanical stability." So perhaps it is Delrin)
Keith, Yeah, it was seriously heavy. We had good mechanical leverage until we tried to move it from the dinghy to the dock. I almost lost some important parts of my anatomy during that lift.

I think Mick, in Australia, said it was Delrin. I'll ask for confirmation from the company that will reproduce them before they start.

I tried to get the lower bushing out today, but it didn't move. I found that 1.5" pvc pipe fits nicely inside the bushing so I used a 2 foot piece as a pry bar, but it was too flexible. I just finished stuffing a 2x2" piece of wood into the PVC to stiffen it and I'm going to try again later. If that doesn't work, I'll try some 1.5" iron pipe. What did you use to pry against the lower bushing?

I did check the upper bushing on the lower end of the rudder post and the inside diameter feels just right. Even if I have to destroy the lower bushing, I still have a good sample to reproduce.
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Old 26-05-2009, 13:23   #273
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Greg;

I wouldn't think PVC would work. I believe it was a fence post. The kind used for a chain link fence. It was about 5 feet long, plenty of leverage.
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Old 26-05-2009, 14:58   #274
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Keith, You're right. The PVC was too short and too soft. I extended the leverage to 3' with the wood insert, but the end of the PVC deformed and so did the wood. I need iron pipe and more leverage. I sure hope the bushing moves without tearing up the housing. I'm off to Home Depot to look for a bigger "weapon."
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Old 27-05-2009, 04:29   #275
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Well done Greg. good luck with the bottom bush. we did move mine a little bit using the the whole rudder as leverage. but did not go any further. Is the shaft diameter exactly 37mm?. I would like to order two bushes when you get around to having them copied and then I will try again on the bottom bush which is sloppy. the one that we sanded that was tight has been perfect ever since. Cheers Mick
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Old 27-05-2009, 06:16   #276
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Mick, I measured the shaft with a caliper and both bearing surfaces (top and bottom) were 49.1mm or just under 2 inches. Your pics look the same as mine, so I doubt the shaft size is different.

I would be happy to order 2 more bushings if you think they are the same. We can both get a better deal on price. I plan to order 4 so I have spares for the port rudder.

Thanks again for your pictures and descriptions of removing rudder. They were a great help to me.
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Old 27-05-2009, 14:50   #277
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Rudder Bushing Saga

Had another setback today on lower bushing. I bought a 6' metal fence post, stuck it inside the bushing and pulled pretty hard. Unfortunately, I bent the end of pipe into an egg shape. The pipe didn't bend, however, so I'll try reinforce the other end and try it again. I did find an 1.5" iron pipe that fits better, but they only had 10' lengths for $44 bucks. That may be the next escalation in my war on Delrin. At least the water is getting warmer.
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Old 27-05-2009, 15:17   #278
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Had another setback today on lower bushing. I bought a 6' metal fence post, stuck it inside the bushing and pulled pretty hard. Unfortunately, I bent the end of pipe into an egg shape. The pipe didn't bend, however, so I'll try reinforce the other end and try it again. I did find an 1.5" iron pipe that fits better, but they only had 10' lengths for $44 bucks. That may be the next escalation in my war on Delrin. At least the water is getting warmer.
Not knowing the boat, but feeling your pain..........
I am assume you cannot put a pipe in from the top to tap it out, thus you are putting a pipe in from the end and trying to "work" it out.
What about a bearing puller with claws pointed outboard attached to a bar or extension that you could tap downward on while in the water?
Just feelin' your pain.
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Old 27-05-2009, 20:35   #279
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Not knowing the boat, but feeling your pain..........
I am assume you cannot put a pipe in from the top to tap it out, thus you are putting a pipe in from the end and trying to "work" it out.
What about a bearing puller with claws pointed outboard attached to a bar or extension that you could tap downward on while in the water?
Just feelin' your pain.
Therapy, Thanks for the suggestions, but the bushing has a unique home. It sits in an aluminum housing that is curved the same radius as the bushing. The only way to remove it is to rotate it 90 degrees and pull it out through the slot in the bottom of the housing. I can't even budge it so far and suspect there is corrosion on aluminum and possible swelling of the bushing. If all else fails, I may be able to cut it with a hack saw blade...that will take awhile.
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Old 28-05-2009, 03:55   #280
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Greg please order me two bearings when you are ready. It sounds like your bottom bush is the same as mine , I had two people trying to lever it with at least 4ft of shaft and it did let go after about ten minutes and made an awful noise like something was breaking but all was ok. I did not go any further with trying to remove it as that was the tight one not the sloppy one.I will change them next time I haul out.Good luck Mick
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Old 28-05-2009, 12:20   #281
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Therapy, Thanks for the suggestions, but the bushing has a unique home. It sits in an aluminum housing that is curved the same radius as the bushing. The only way to remove it is to rotate it 90 degrees and pull it out through the slot in the bottom of the housing. I can't even budge it so far and suspect there is corrosion on aluminum and possible swelling of the bushing. If all else fails, I may be able to cut it with a hack saw blade...that will take awhile.
That came to me as the evenings work wore on to MN.

Still making stuff up with no first hand knowledge.

Drill two holes, insert bolts, rotate, pull on bolts.

I used a hand crank drill one time under water to repair a cracked rudder with a strap so we could feel better about getting home. No fun.
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Old 28-05-2009, 12:47   #282
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Therapy;

What Greg is trying/has to do is rock the bushing back and forth within its housing. It is going to take a LOT of force to get it to move. To give you and idea, I had to use a 5 foot, 1.5 inch steel lever to get mine to move. I was/am about 240 lbs, was standing on dry land, used liberal amounts of PB blaster (Lubricating oil) and it did not take less than the lever and a whole lot of muscle to get it to move. Once I got it to move a little, it was a matter of rocking in back and forth for a couple hours to get it so I could rotate it enough to pull it from the slot. Put a screw in it would just pull the screw out, if he could get enough force on it.

Since he is underwater, he may have to get a bigger lever, or, it may just be easier to cut the bushing out. Although, I am thinking how he would keep from cutting into the surrounding housing? I would have said burn it out, but that's not going to work underwater either. I think he is stuck with getting a longer lever.

Sorry I am not down that way Greg, I would have brought a couple of tanks and joined you.
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Old 29-05-2009, 16:44   #283
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Therapy;

What Greg is trying/has to do is rock the bushing back and forth within its housing. It is going to take a LOT of force to get it to move. To give you and idea, I had to use a 5 foot, 1.5 inch steel lever to get mine to move. I was/am about 240 lbs, was standing on dry land, used liberal amounts of PB blaster (Lubricating oil) and it did not take less than the lever and a whole lot of muscle to get it to move. Once I got it to move a little, it was a matter of rocking in back and forth for a couple hours to get it so I could rotate it enough to pull it from the slot. Put a screw in it would just pull the screw out, if he could get enough force on it.

Since he is underwater, he may have to get a bigger lever, or, it may just be easier to cut the bushing out. Although, I am thinking how he would keep from cutting into the surrounding housing? I would have said burn it out, but that's not going to work underwater either. I think he is stuck with getting a longer lever.

Sorry I am not down that way Greg, I would have brought a couple of tanks and joined you.
Keith, Wish you were here! I made big progress today. I made a new "weapon" out of a 12" piece of 1.5" pipe and a 4ft "wrecking bar". The 12" pipe was the ideal diameter to fit inside the bushing and the 4ft bar was for leverage. I pounded some wood shims into the pipe so the pipe and bar were fastened together. FINALLY I got the bushing to move by grabbing the very end of the lever and jerking the bar very hard. The bushing moved with a high pitched squeel that was music to my ears. The bar is very heavy so I think the inertia broke the bushing loose. I worked for an hour today working the bushing back and forth in both directions until I ran out of air. It is a little bit looser, but still needs the full leverage of the bar to move it. I've been squirting WD-40 around the bushing and it tends to float up and around it. I may try some PB blaster since it penetrates better. The next time I dive on it, I'm going to try at low tide so I can plant my feet on the bottom.

For Privileged: Mick I'll order two bushings for you shortly. I would like to get the bottom bushing out first so I can compare it to top one. I'm pretty sure they are the same, but want to be positive.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:28   #284
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Rudder Bushing Progress

I'm making slow progress on removing the bottom rudder bushing. I have rocked the bushing back and forth hundreds of times and it is loosening up a little. Now I can move it with one hand with a 3' lever arm. I made a new pipe lever today that is lighter and should reduce my air consumption underwater. At low tide I can plant my fins in the mud and that helps the process greatly. If only I had gills and an underwater Dremel tool, this job would be easy.
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Old 01-06-2009, 18:48   #285
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Final Score: Sailor 1, Bushing 0

The lower rudder bushing came out today shortly before my arms fell off. The lower bushing was the same dimensions as the upper, but was way out of round and probably the reason for the excess play and noise. I attached some pics showing the upper aluminum housing and how the bushing fits in the slot. Also shown are the homemade pry bars I used to break the bushing free. Next step is to order the new bushings and replace the rudder. Hopefully, the bushing installation will be much easier than the removal.
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