Privilege 45 for Offshore Cruising ?

[welljim]

Hi everyone,

no experience at all with multihulls but I'm toying with the idea of considering seriously a Privilege 45 (1995 model). Does anyone have any experience with them in the context of blue water cruising? There seem to be a bunch of articles suggesting that cats slam worryingly during passages, how does the P45 score in that regard? Other comments about its suitability for this type of use?

Any known weak areas that I should pay attention to while inspecting the boat?

Any other cat in the same price bracket and size that you think may be more suitable? I'm just starting the investigation on the Privilege because I think I prefer the layout more, but there may be more important considerations to weigh in.

I thought it was interesting that the stove on all Privileges that I looked at, were not gimbaled! Is that common on cats? Obviously they don't heal, but what about passage making in heavy seas?

Is single-handing possible, and docking with just the wife assisting?

Average annual maintenance costs when cruising (assuming no deferred maintenance) for a cat of that size? How limiting is your cat when mooring, and do you typically have to pay extra because of beam (how much roughly)?

There are some rumors going around the monohull community that cats rock weirdly, making some people very seasick, is there any truth there or is it just old wife's tales?

Last but not least, any recommendations on how to build skills for transiting from monohulls to cats (i.e. handling differences, heavy weather tactics, etc..)? I'm not very experienced in monohulls either anyway.

Many thanks guys, and apologies for being all over the place with these questions.

[neilpride]

In have a friend with a 45 old privilege , the boat is solid like a rock, i mean this boats are built heavy in the old days, thick laminates, good tabbing around bulkheads, real wood inside, no doubt about the quality of construction.

For blue water work? yes why not, he need some wind to start moving , around 20 to 25 is happy.

Cats slam in certain sea conditions, unless you found something really hig in terms of bridge clearance , well you need to live with it, 1 time is anoying.

Pasages in heavy weather in a cat? i believe the Privilege is a good choice in a big blow , and the robust construction is a bonus, going singlehand is not a problem , my friend made daycharter with this cat here in st marteen and sometimes he sail to BVI alone , a good autopilot , the main sheet is in the cockpit and the jib winches are close to the helm, docking no problem at all if your wife is there.

Maintenance: i asume you get a good surveyor before going with the privilege, a 1995 boat need a good lookout, expect expensive docking bills, and same for haulout, plus you have 2 engines , 2 ruders, 2 keels, .

Fisrt time i delivery a cat from France someone tell me reef early , mainsheet to the end, and always with a bit of mainsail in a big blow, the sea motion reactions in a cat is like side to side up and down very fast , fast reactions, so maybe your stomach need some days to feel the diference , heavy weather tactics is another thread to long to write here.

Enjoy the privilege if finally you goo for it, is a good Cat...

[sww914]

You can charter a small cat in many places for not a lot of money, I remember around $300.00 a day in San Diego for instance. Better to give it a try before you buy to make sure that you like it. I do, I just couldn't afford the cover charge.

[Mick C]

Originally Posted by neilpride

In have a friend with a 45 old privilege , the boat is solid like a rock, i mean this boats are built heavy in the old days, thick laminates, good tabbing around bulkheads, real wood inside, no doubt about the quality of construction.

For blue water work? yes why not, he need some wind to start moving , around 20 to 25 is happy.

Cats slam in certain sea conditions, unless you found something really hig in terms of bridge clearance , well you need to live with it, 1 time is anoying.

Pasages in heavy weather in a cat? i believe the Privilege is a good choice in a big blow , and the robust construction is a bonus, going singlehand is not a problem , my friend made daycharter with this cat here in st marteen and sometimes he sail to BVI alone , a good autopilot , the main sheet is in the cockpit and the jib winches are close to the helm, docking no problem at all if your wife is there.

Maintenance: i asume you get a good surveyor before going with the privilege, a 1995 boat need a good lookout, expect expensive docking bills, and same for haulout, plus you have 2 engines , 2 ruders, 2 keels, .

Fisrt time i delivery a cat from France someone tell me reef early , mainsheet to the end, and always with a bit of mainsail in a big blow, the sea motion reactions in a cat is like side to side up and down very fast , fast reactions, so maybe your stomach need some days to feel the diference , heavy weather tactics is another thread to long to write here.

Enjoy the privilege if finally you goo for it, is a good Cat...

Like a rock is probably not the best analogy for a boat,,,

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by welljim

Hi everyone,

no experience at all with multihulls but I'm toying with the idea of considering seriously a Privilege 45 (1995 model). Does anyone have any experience with them in the context of blue water cruising? There seem to be a bunch of articles suggesting that cats slam worryingly during passages, how does the P45 score in that regard? Other comments about its suitability for this type of use?

Any known weak areas that I should pay attention to while inspecting the boat?

Any other cat in the same price bracket and size that you think may be more suitable? I'm just starting the investigation on the Privilege because I think I prefer the layout more, but there may be more important considerations to weigh in.

I thought it was interesting that the stove on all Privileges that I looked at, were not gimbaled! Is that common on cats? Obviously they don't heal, but what about passage making in heavy seas?

Is single-handing possible, and docking with just the wife assisting?

Average annual maintenance costs when cruising (assuming no deferred maintenance) for a cat of that size? How limiting is your cat when mooring, and do you typically have to pay extra because of beam (how much roughly)?

There are some rumors going around the monohull community that cats rock weirdly, making some people very seasick, is there any truth there or is it just old wife's tales?

Last but not least, any recommendations on how to build skills for transiting from monohulls to cats (i.e. handling differences, heavy weather tactics, etc..)? I'm not very experienced in monohulls either anyway.

Many thanks guys, and apologies for being all over the place with these questions.

Non-gimballed stoves and front-loading refrigerators are common on cats, as they stay flat in most conditions, especially the longer ones (over 45').

The rocking motion is different on a cat than it is in a monohull, which some people find unpleasant. This applies mainly to waves hitting your beam - think about how often that will happen. A longer, balanced, and properly loaded cat should handle bow waves very nicely.

The privilege I looked at has a main cabin inside the bridgedeck. That results in a low clearance between the hulls, which is a recipe for wave slamming. This is why modern designs, like Lagoons or Leopards, no longer try to put cabin space inside the bridgedeck.

Some Privileges were 5 cabin models, and very wide. This is an obvious shot at the charter market - more cabins = more revenue - at least in theory. I haven't seen any 5 cabin cats in that length in quite a while, not counting the little bow "cabins" some longer cats have.

In general, you can look for models with high freeboard (meaning high bridgedecks and more standing room in the hulls), high bridgedecks, and "clean" tunnels, meaning few protuberances between the hulls.

Also, on older models look out for cats that have the anchors mounted UNDER the bridgedeck. Think about what will happen (a) if seawater is repeatedly flooding that area (think electric windlass), and (b) if something happens and you need to free a kinked chain, retrieve a chain or anchor, etc. Further, you should add a bridle to such an anchor if it doesn't have one (like the Leopards have), or else you can scar your gelcoat if the boat drifts against the chain at night due to shifting wind or current.

Many or most newer models run the anchor chain over the top of the bridgedeck and drop the anchor from the bow.

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by welljim

...
I thought it was interesting that the stove on all Privileges that I looked at, were not gimbaled! Is that common on cats? Obviously they don't heal, but what about passage making in heavy seas?
...

Never seen a gimbaled stove on a cat, so from my limited exposure I would say common to not be gimbaled.

Opinion: I would say that even on a monohull that a gimbaled stove is not really needed. Can usually flatten boat out enough to cook a meal in a solid mounted stove, assuming pots held in place with fiddles. I just say this from fact that my gimbaled stove spends 95% of its cooking time locked-down in solid position. Cooking on a stove that is free to rotate is not without significant risks (i.e., if one bumps into stove when boat lurches the result can be pots spilling contents). 5% of time it is handy to have gimbaled, but given extra space used to install a gimbaled stove, I think cost/benefit not so favorable.

[barnakiel]

My friends sailed a Privilege extensively. They seemed very happy with the boat. That was in the Pacific, later they sailed on to Asia.

As with any older boat, make sure all structure is sound and replace standing rigging unless it has been replaced recently.

b.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ArtM

Non-gimballed stoves and front-loading refrigerators are common on cats, as they stay flat in most conditions, especially the longer ones (over 45').

The rocking motion is different on a cat than it is in a monohull, which some people find unpleasant. This applies mainly to waves hitting your beam - think about how often that will happen. A longer, balanced, and properly loaded cat should handle bow waves very nicely.

No, on the beam is not a problem, bow waves are the bane of a cat.

Originally Posted by ArtM

The privilege I looked at has a main cabin inside the bridgedeck. That results in a low clearance between the hulls, which is a recipe for wave slamming. This is why modern designs, like Lagoons or Leopards, no longer try to put cabin space inside the bridge deck.

Huh? Explain what you mean by 'inside' the bridge deck.

Originally Posted by ArtM

Some Privileges were 5 cabin models, and very wide. This is an obvious shot at the charter market - more cabins = more revenue - at least in theory. I haven't seen any 5 cabin cats in that length in quite a while, not counting the little bow "cabins" some longer cats have.

Can you provide evidence that Privilege tried to enter the charter market?

Originally Posted by ArtM

In general, you can look for models with high freeboard (meaning high bridgedecks and more standing room in the hulls), high bridgedecks, and "clean" tunnels, meaning few protuberances between the hulls.

Also, on older models look out for cats that have the anchors mounted UNDER the bridgedeck. Think about what will happen (a) if seawater is repeatedly flooding that area (think electric windlass), and (b) if something happens and you need to free a kinked chain, retrieve a chain or anchor, etc. Further, you should add a bridle to such an anchor if it doesn't have one (like the Leopards have), or else you can scar your gelcoat if the boat drifts against the chain at night due to shifting wind or current.

You would rather have the anchor on the fore beam? How many cats have you owned? Sailed? Anchored? How many times have you witnessed water entering a chain locker located under a bridge deck?

Originally Posted by ArtM

Many or most newer models run the anchor chain over the top of the bridgedeck and drop the anchor from the bow.

Wrong!

[teneicm]

DotDun-

Inside the bridge deck or nacelle- common on the older 482 models: http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resi...80135_6_0.jpg?

Also, with those 482s, Privilege essentially invented (or at least supported) the carribean multihull charter market back in the late 80's /early 90's when the French defiscilisation program was in full swing. Quite are few 20 year old Privileges are still operating in charter, actually.

[Eleven]

They are based on the Prout's of yesteryear, some used the same moulds. Build quality varies as production moved around the world but a good survey will give you an idea of how well built yours is.
It's a great choice for cruising. Definition of Cruising is no destination, and no time limits.
Working to windward in a swell is lumpy and you will get slamming, but they are supposed to sail at 30 to 35 to apparent. it's a sweet spot that I only found once and will never forget.
In heavy weather a strong storm staysail will keep you moving with steerage way, you won't go upwind you won't blow downwind much either. There's plenty of threads on dragging drogues and such like but good weather forecasts and planning should see you avoiding the worst of weather. Theyr seems to be the most consistent forecast but I'm not a user.
Boat speed is similar to mono's once the wind gets above 15 kts, my tired sails and dirty hulls generally made 1/3rd wind speed but would carry full sails at thirty knots. Anything over twenty knots gave hull speed of 7 ish. A spinaker would help with light airs.
Cruising at over ten knots is a series of leaps off wave tops, so not much is lost and gear lasts much longer if you reef for a knot under hull speed, probably about nine knots for your hull length.
I hope the one you are looking at is a rear masted version. It makes single handing so much easier, single watch keeping particularly is comfortable and easily managed.
Add some tie down eyes for crew, in the cockpit, and especially on the foredecks. Working up there in a 6 or 7 is lively and safe but it does get a bit wet at times, a wave over the top would be a MOB or a damaged Man on Board.
Personally I love the hull galley arrangement. Keeps all the mess, spills, and hot liquids in a limited space.
The rear bunks are really comfortable at sea. The heads in the bows need grab handles and preferably a rearward facing loo.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by teneicm

DotDun-

Inside the bridge deck or nacelle- common on the older 482 models: http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resi...80135_6_0.jpg?

Obviously it's semantics - on or in the bridge deck.

Originally Posted by teneicm

Also, with those 482s, Privilege essentially invented (or at least supported) the carribean multihull charter market back in the late 80's /early 90's when the French defiscilisation program was in full swing. Quite are few 20 year old Privileges are still operating in charter, actually.

I did not know that, I've never seen a Privilege advertised at any charter company. Apparently I haven't looked hard enough.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Obviously it's semantics - on or in the bridge deck.



I did not know that, I've never seen a Privilege advertised at any charter company. Apparently I haven't looked hard enough.

Very few in bareboat charter. Lots in crewed charter because they are luxurious inside and built to take punishment. Even the Moorings still have some 12-15 year old Privilege 65s in their crewed charter fleets. They are as good as new.

[SV Wings]

[QUOTE=Eleven;982799]They are based on the Prout's of yesteryear, some used the same moulds. Build quality varies as production moved around the world but a good survey will give you an idea of how well built yours is."

Stop talking out your A-hole, Privileges have been built in one place and one place only- FRANCE. Everything you said is discredited.

[SV Wings]

"I hope the one you are looking at is a rear masted version. It makes single handing so much easier, "

OMG Are you serious right now?? What the HE!! is a rear masted version? You have no idea what you're talking about. LOOK- people come here with legitimate questions, seeking legitimate answers. If you are going to make stuff up, then don't post.

[Eleven]

My mistake, from info elsewhere. Apologies.