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Old 02-10-2016, 15:16   #16
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Very good questions.

Foam. Early Geminis filled the tanks with foam, and when they had a few top-side leaks, they were terrible to fix and very heavy. I know that my tanks occasionally get some water in them; if a compartment has an inspection hatch it will breath, pant under way, and occasionally sweat. In the case of a rudder tube compartment, I want to be able to inspect the tube after impact (bent one once) and perform internal repairs if need be. I would not want them foam-filled. Just an observation. It makes good sense for small bow compartments for racers, but maybe not for cruisers.

Why didn't I fix the leak? The water was 32F making work (while basically standing on your head in rough conditions--an ugly location in the compartment) quite unpleasant. We were in the Chesapeake Bay, not off-shore. I was able to pump it down periodically and determine that it was a very slow leak; it took over 8 hours to re-flood. I suspected the source. No, none of the bulkheads nor the gear in them was subject to water damage. All electrical components are WAY above the water line. Yes, I would have been more proactive off-shore.

Good questions.
Got it, thanks.
When I read the post earlier, it sounded as if you had a speedo sensor which was cross threaded, or not properly tightened down, that came loose. Thus filling the compartment with water. So that all that needed doing to stop the leak was to re-install the sensor, or put in the blanking plug. Both of which are easy fixes. Thus my questions.

I've thought through adding foam more than a few times. Both on mono's & multi's. And one KISS idea that I had was to glue a sheet of 2" foam to the hull's inner skin, & glass over it with a few layers of heavy triax. Then add another such combo layer atop that one, etc. Until satisfied with the amount of buoyancy & crash protection added.
And in doing it this way, wind up with a multi-layered crash barrier, with multiple 2nd skins on the inside of the compartment where this was done. With plenty of extra floatation as well.

Plus I'd also be inclined to add some partial bulkheads in some areas where this was done. So that there were some longitudinal division too. Which would also serve to add even more sacrificial energy absorbing structures to the vessel.

With these things, the biggest cautions that came to mind were to test the foam for it's resistance to absorbing water. And to be careful where each layer ended, especially the added glass. So as to not create any hard spots in the hull or other structures.
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Old 02-10-2016, 15:50   #17
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

Rainmaker.
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Old 02-10-2016, 15:52   #18
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

Lagoon 500.
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Old 02-10-2016, 15:52   #19
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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I thought you had your heart set on an Amel because you liked the steering wheel? Now I'm trying to picture your Leopard or Lagoon with three composting heads, that's a lot to process.
It all depends on finances and how much to commit. My mother has middle-stage Alzheimers so I don't know if I want to commit to a large purchase if I'll just need to return and take care of her.

The Amel is at the top of my monohull list. A 40'-44' catamaran is on the top of my multihull list. I like both, but for sure I will get Nature's Head composting toilets.

Here is how I am thinking about it.

$50,000 -$75,000 40' Jeanneau Sun-Odyssey
$80,000 - $120,000 46' Amel Maramu
$120,000 - $180,000 53' Amel Super Maramu
$180-000 - $250,000 40' to 44' Lagoon or Leopard
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Old 02-10-2016, 16:17   #20
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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It all depends on finances and how much to commit. My mother has middle-stage Alzheimers so I don't know if I want to commit to a large purchase if I'll just need to return and take care of her.

The Amel is at the top of my monohull list. A 40'-44' catamaran is on the top of my multihull list. I like both, but for sure I will get Nature's Head composting toilets.

Here is how I am thinking about it.

$50,000 -$75,000 40' Jeanneau Sun-Odyssey
$80,000 - $120,000 46' Amel Maramu
$120,000 - $180,000 53' Amel Super Maramu
$180-000 - $250,000 40' to 44' Lagoon or Leopard
It sounds as if time is a bigger issue than money. In which case it makes sense to pursue the most expedient option. To include a boat which doesn't need much work, nor gear added to it. And that also means seperating necessities from nice to haves; in terms of accessories/toys, & boat features. Non?

Also, is there any chance that mom would do okay on a boat now?
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Old 02-10-2016, 16:47   #21
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

Mom has finally reached a point where she is losing the basics like operating the washing machine, washing her hair, putting away her clothes. She still knows who we are but she forgot I was left-handed. Someone drives her to mass every morning and she goes to a Senior Center in the afternoons for social interaction and mental exercises like puzzles and games. Fortunately, she is the happiest person around, however, this is a sick disease which is fatal and stats say she only has 1-4 years left.

I'll have finished my big project this November and theoretically could start a cruising adventure, but mom comes first. If she is doing well, I might buy an inexpensive boat for this winter. If mom's condition degrades quickly, I'll hold off until after she passes and then buy. Also, the finances of my current project will determine what kind of boat I can purchase so I am gathering as much information as I can now.
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Old 02-10-2016, 17:47   #22
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

Fountaine Pajot which I believe floated across from the eastern Caribbean to Panama like this.
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Old 02-10-2016, 18:40   #23
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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Fountaine Pajot which I believe floated across from the eastern Caribbean to Panama like this.
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Looks like the cockpit and maybe saloon would still be dry!

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Old 02-10-2016, 19:07   #24
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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Looks like the cockpit and maybe saloon would still be dry!

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Yeah, and I'm pretty sure it only took a couple of knots of its top speed!


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Old 02-10-2016, 20:47   #25
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

My apoligies for putting you & this situation in the spotlight. That must really be a tough one. Though it sounds as if there are several of you working together on the difficult bits, which is fortunate.
With that in mind, the having a tribe helping you to handle big things, I'd imagine that it would be good to run some of the paths which you might soon take by them. As well as by your mom. Since if you head out cruising, more burden falls upon them. Though ultimately it's your choice of course. And it also sounds as if your mom is sharp enough to render a sound answer to this kind of question.

One thing to consider though is that it usually takes people a year or three of prep time, to get the boat ready, & to streamline & redirect their lives enough to be able to take off & go cruising. There are exceptions of course, & ways around this, but it's something to consider.

And if one's sailing & repair skill levels are high then it's much easier to take off with virtually zero prep, in most any boat which has sound primary systems; rig, rudder, sails, self steering, anchor, & tender (probably engine too).
Then, fixing & modifying things along the way, & even under sail isn't overly tough. But for neophytes this is much harder, if possible at all. Even if most of the work gets hired out along the way. And then you're prey to whomever sees you as a mark, since you don't well know the difference between good repairs & bad as yet.

Thus, in thinking aloud, often much of that time that many spend prepping a vessel, is also time in which they're learning how to do many things to her, & to better their sailing weaknesses. Both fixing, learning how to fix things, & figuring out how she's put together by doing a lot of the adding on of systems.

So now the check in the mirror becomes how much upkeep, & adding to a boat are you ready to do while traveling foreign lands. Where not only don't you speak the language, but you may not yet "speak boat" fluently in english, let alone in the local tongue.
Not that sailing is all about fixing the boat, but the key bits on her do need to work in order to cruise.

From what I recall, it sounds like you've got time on the water, & own (or owned) a good size boat. And hopefully she didn't own you So obviously there's a sailing foundation on which to build, but... From this point in the discussion, more feedback's needed (for me) to be able to comment intelligently. And hopefully I haven't dug myself into too deep a hole.
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Old 03-10-2016, 02:03   #26
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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Rainmaker.

After about a year.
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Old 03-10-2016, 02:15   #27
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

I am with Thinwater regarding the foam. I have seen it many times at our Multihull club and it never went well. Imagine trying to repair damage in an area that is filled with foam. Bad enough in a yard, a nightmare at sea.

Pdq had an owner of a power cat that complained of a failure of the forward water proof bulk head. Turned out that he had severely damaged one of the bow tanks. Then he set off at his normall cruising speed of 13 or so knots with the full load of water bashing around in the compartment.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:18   #28
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

I am sorry Linda that your Mum has dementia. My mum had this for a few years and passed away, happy, at age 87. Memories are who we are and it is sad to see that fade. Take care of yourself first as this is harder on the caregivers. Lovely, poignant, song by Glen Campbell 'l'm not going to miss you'.. Dave


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Old 03-10-2016, 07:10   #29
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

Lagoons are not positively buoyant. I am positive as I have seen one that sank.

If I liked a design and wanted it to be positively buoyant, I would simply make it buoyant. It should be easy given no ballast and probably a near neutral buoyancy of most cruising cats right off the shelf.

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Old 03-10-2016, 07:40   #30
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Re: Positively buoyant catamarans

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Lagoons are not positively buoyant. I am positive as I have seen one that sank.

If I liked a design and wanted it to be positively buoyant, I would simply make it buoyant. It should be easy given no ballast and probably a near neutral buoyancy of most cruising cats right off the shelf.

b.
Maybe those front parts of the forward cabins and storage under the beds could be filled with empty 2-liter bottles with the cap on tight. I read about some Gemini owners doing something like this.
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