Poor seamanship ??

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

seems to me a lot of people have inadequate respect for what the sea can do, and inadequate experience for dealing successfully with what they encounter. It's hard, because you don't know what you don't know...

Ann

Yep -- almost lost a small sport-fisher pulling a stunt like that in a NC inlet forty some years ago -- I was young, naive and very fortunate. The sea and inlets always demand respect. Some folks of course spend their whole lives running those inlets, but in conditions like that the average recreational skipper can be quickly over-matched unless they get really, really lucky.

[DumnMad]

In a river port the key is to have water running past the rudder in the direction you want to go. The Greymouth fishing boats were heading into the flooded river so that even with waves breaking and push them off-line there was river flow underneath for the rudder to latch onto and realign the boat.
The other thing is they had a reasonable amount of engine power.
Shallow draft under powered cat or launch would struggle to regain it's course.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

In a river port the key is to have water running past the rudder in the direction you want to go.

I know what you mean, but I don't think you have phrased that well

You want water running past the rudder from the direction you want to go.

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by yeloya

12 m cat (possibly a Lagoon 40) at the exit of Porto Turistico di Roma was filmed while attempting to leave the port despite the warning of port authorities.
"Strong winds" and 1-1,5 meter swells are reported. 3 brasilians were on board. They are all safe but the boat is a wreck..

For more info, the link is below (in italian)

http://www.ilquotidianodellitorale.i...l-largo-ostia/

Cheers

Yeloya

Great video for the bank and insurance company.

Otherwise pitiful.

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by boom23

I wonder if it is possible to do what the video instructs with a sailboat, especially during entering. Does a sailboat have enough power/speed to stay on the back hump of a wave? Does anyone know?

Not a chance - you need to be able to do 20 knots to be able to sit behind a wave. I've joked with other skippers about how we can get our 10 ton slugs up to that speed.

In my limited experience, it seems that it's best to have the waves pass under you cleanly and reduce surfing as much as possible. I find the period where you are surfing and there is almost no flow across the rudder to be a little unnerving - you are mostly a passenger at that point, just hoping the boat is pointing the same way when the wave passes. Probably a scenario where modern wide sterns makes things worse than narrow double enders

I've even been tempted to try some reverse throttle at that point -but mechanical sympathy means that the time to change from forwards to reverse is probably too great to be of assistance.

I hate bar ways -which explains why we have left our boat at tin can bay, on the inside of wide bay bar.

Mike

[Barra]

Originally Posted by snort

The right engine failed-

I would be scratching around for an excuse for the insurance company for that screw up too.

Would be interested to hear down the track if it actually works though.

Engine issues or not once your not dead bow on to breaking waves your cactus and he seemed to steer off at an angle (and not the direction indicated by right hand engine failure which is why I dont buy it).

Also they are clearly not brazza surfers as they couldnt have timed the sets any worse

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by yeloya

I would prefer to be on mono in these conditions because of inertia and much less exposure against waves.. See this:

But definately on a cat the otehr way around because of much better directional stability of the cat. And see this:

Perfect seamanship BTW in both cases..




Cheers


Yeloya

I did something like this once, entering the breachway into the inner harbor at Rodney Bay (St. Lucia)...at 3am with a 6-8' swell from a hurricane that was passing a couple hundred miles to the north. In a 44' cat, it seemed a wild ride but was very stable and over in no time. Just down a shot of rum, aim and shoot (with throttles wide open)!

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by Barra

I would be scratching around for an excuse for the insurance company for that screw up too.



Would be interested to hear down the track if it actually works though.



Engine issues or not once your not dead bow on to breaking waves your cactus and he seemed to steer off at an angle (and not the direction indicated by right hand engine failure which is why I dont buy it).



Also they are clearly not brazza surfers as they couldnt have timed the sets any worse

I agree the engine failure seems like an excuse. At no point did he pick up any speed, he was always too timid. If his engine failed he it would have been after throttling up to make his pass (but you never see him try to speed up) He would have to claim his engine was out from the get go, which means he should have obviously not attempted the crossing.

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by wcapital

I did something like this once, entering the breachway into the inner harbor at Rodney Bay (St. Lucia)...at 3am with a 6-8' swell from a hurricane that was passing a couple hundred miles to the north. In a 44' cat, it seemed a wild ride but was very stable and over in no time. Just down a shot of rum, aim and shoot (with throttles wide open)!

...but sure as h... wouldn't have tried going out against those breaking waves!

Originally Posted by wcapital

I did something like this once, entering the breachway into the inner harbor at Rodney Bay (St. Lucia)...at 3am with a 6-8' swell from a hurricane that was passing a couple hundred miles to the north. In a 44' cat, it seemed a wild ride but was very stable and over in no time. Just down a shot of rum, aim and shoot (with throttles wide open)!

[surf_sail]

I'm curious. Does anyone have experience taking a cat through waves like this?

I've never tried (and wouldn't unless I had a very compelling reason), but from my experience with waves I'd guess that boat should technically be able to make it with proper wave timing and speed (assuming no engine failure) even if you mis-timed and had to ram through a breaking wave, with momentum I think that boat could do it (maybe some damage to anchor and stuff upfront).

My main concerns would be a) getting hit on the nose by a wave just as it curls over and crashes right on deck - but you should be able to time that by speeding up / slowing down.

And b) engine failure after the first waves shakes up everything in the fuel tank.

[MikeFergie]

On a powerboat this is a lot easier as you can keep your boat in the right zone with power (unless you hit a cavitation zone in the water). I have done this thousands of times but I am extremely weary and feel venerable on a sailboat as you don’t have the power to keep with a wave going in and going out you don’t have the power to pull closer to a wave before it breaks going out. Technically as long as the bows are kept perpendicular to the wave it should be okay but it depends on the wave height and more importantly how your boat is positioned after the wave as the next one is on its way.

If you watch the video of that lagoon you will clearly see where things went wrong. The bow of the boat seemed to be caught slightly of perpendicular allowing for the breaking wave to push the bows to the port side. Once this occurred it’s just over and there is no way to recover as the next waves will just make things worse as we can see. Either through loss of the “port” engine or 70 degrees not 90 degrees to the wave. Being pushed back by a wave also could have caused the steering wheel to spin out of control if not held really tight and turned the rudders making the situation worse.

Personally I feel in this situation a little foresail is required to keep the momentum of the boat as the water is very airated causing cavitation and stopping all forward motion. If the wind and
Angle does not allow for this don’t go.

My thoughts !

[Barra]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

I agree the engine failure seems like an excuse. At no point did he pick up any speed, he was always too timid. If his engine failed he it would have been after throttling up to make his pass (but you never see him try to speed up) He would have to claim his engine was out from the get go, which means he should have obviously not attempted the crossing.

Yep from our armchair perspective it looks like he got the rabbit in the spotlight effect once in the thick if it. Just like a big wave take off you have to COMMIT!!!

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

I'm curious. Does anyone have experience taking a cat through waves like this?

Yes, I had to do in the so called marina in Santorini. There is a sand bar at the entry and breaking large swells squeezed in the narrow and shallow entry was pushing the boat up against the concrete dock.. I had to leave 3 AM and exit up against these huge swells. Full throttle both engines keeping straight to waves, didn't have any issue with a 43 ft cat. It was more difficult in the dark as it was difficult to see exactly the direction of waves. Full moon helped a lot..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Not enough speed and.. from the look of his shoulders he was using the helm for control instead of locking it central and using his engines to steer/control the boat.. very sluggish response's.

That was my same thought Boatie, just not enough momentum and counter power

From the 2nd video I honestly didn't think it looked too bad.

It also looked like he was trying to cut the corner to his port side but I don't know that harbour.

[olivert]

Notice sail cover still on and I bet headsail still has a tie on. I think he was totally unprepared in the "sure knowledge" it was fine outside and off for lunch somewhere close. A very nasty shock indeed