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Old 25-09-2008, 00:40   #1
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pointing ability

Hi folks,
Whilst out last weekend I could not get my ketch rigged Cross 38 to point very well. It points to about 55 degrees hard on the wind not very good, not real bad, but still not good. The sails are new but cut somewhat full.
Also I have been thinking of removing the mizzen since I seldom use it. It would free up the aft area for my solar panels,and would allow for easier deployment of an aft anchor. Also the cockpit is woefully lacking in drainage. I have been thinking of adding drainage tubes. I am interested if anyone on the site has this type of boat and what they did to alleviate the problem. Finally I have a new Lewmar Freedom windless to install, I understand there is a particular rope to chain splice to use. What might that be?
By the way I did a single handed passage from Wilmington/LongBeach to Honolulu in this boat back in July. Crew bailed on me at the last moment. Any way it was an 18 day sail. I used working sails. Sailed the rhumb line, light winds after the first 4 days. No trades to speak of. mostly east winds around 10 knots. In fact trades have been light or none existent. My best day was 165 miles with a few days less than 100 due to no wind.
sarge
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Old 25-09-2008, 12:38   #2
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Went for a test sail today on an FP Lavezzi with the new flat top main, she was pointing in AW 30 degrees comfortably and taking through 60 degrees so for TW 40 and 80 respectively, pretty impressive as cats don't point and won't tack and this was in fluky wind conditions between 8 and 11 knots with 14 knot gusts (occasionally).
At 30 degrees AW at about 10 knots she managed 5.7 to 6.2 and at 90 to 100 degrees the best was 8.2 knots - note the wind was not constant at any time so it was not a fair trial in a true constant wind.
All the same not bad, only 2 persons on board, 75% water and 60% fuel.
With feathyering props and a decent gennaker - maybe another 2 knots - who know's.
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Old 25-09-2008, 12:44   #3
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We all know a dog can point, but now you say a cat? Love to see a pic of that
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Old 25-09-2008, 13:55   #4
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How about a movie? Find some video of the America's cup 1988. An 18 metre cat that absolutely thrashed the fastest and best monohull in the world (and nearly 10 metres longer) on all points of sail. Without even using a spinnaker.

Bruce Farr knew what was coming - "The development program has resulted in better boat speed. But even though it's the fastest monohull keelboat in the world, the chances of New Zealand beating the cat are close to zero."
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Old 25-09-2008, 14:10   #5
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44,

I was just kidding. My cat points well enough for me to understand. I have surprised more than one mono........
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Old 25-09-2008, 14:23   #6
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This is certainly a head scratcher as Tris usually sail as well or better than cats or monos. The key might be your main sail. If it's deep or baggy as you've mentioned, it will have a significant effect on pointing ability.

I guess I'll assume you've already played with mast rake, outhaul and halyard tensions, and traveler positions.
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Old 25-09-2008, 14:25   #7
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Red Horse: is the Sunbow shoal draft, centterboard or daggerboard equipped? Is the bottom clean and fare?
Try increasing the outhaul tension on the main, and slowly head up in a stable breeze. Watch your wake to get a feeling for your crab angle. You will probably find that you can point somewhat higher when you maintain boat speed, and that when the boat slows your crab angle increases a bunch.
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Old 25-09-2008, 14:25   #8
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When I said cats don't point and won't tack, what I was trying to say is that this is monohuller speak who has not properly experienced a decent cat, I know that a good cat will point and tack as well as any mono.
I WANT A CAT - NOW.
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Old 25-09-2008, 14:31   #9
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Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
44,

I was just kidding. My cat points well enough for me to understand. I have surprised more than one mono........
Yeah, I was just hoping someone could find video of the 1988 AC for me.

All I've seen is a short segment from a sports show. I'd like to see more.
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Old 25-09-2008, 16:40   #10
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Red Horse,
I have a Morgan O/I 41 ft & I mostly use the mizzen & jib.
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Old 26-09-2008, 03:10   #11
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pointing ability

Rick,
Thanks for the suggestions,I have experimented with the halyard, out haul, and traveler. Mast rake is next. The boat has a mini keel. I have been told a keel plate would help just have to find a boat that has one for reference. My VMG on stb tack was the same as COG port tack it was cut in half. Winds were light around 10 to 15 with a slight swell from NE. The main looked quite full, as did the jib. With the light wind I had to back the jib to get thru irons. Never had this problem with my Marples.
Sandy thanks for the input. I was pinching trying to point better she did feel sluggish, I will check the bottom to see what I may be towing. The hulls are very fair.
For general info I worked for the company that built the mast for Stars and Stripes.
Sarge
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Old 26-09-2008, 04:12   #12
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Rick,
Thanks for the suggestions,I have experimented with the halyard, out haul, and traveler. Mast rake is next. The boat has a mini keel. I have been told a keel plate would help just have to find a boat that has one for reference. My VMG on stb tack was the same as COG port tack it was cut in half.

OH.... it's beginning to sound like your mast isn't centered. Take a halyard, attach it to a tape measure, run it up the mast as far as feasible and measure to an exact spot on your toe rail on each side of the hull. I'm guessing you'll find that the mast isn't centered,
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Old 26-09-2008, 05:58   #13
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30 deg...off the true wind ? hhhmmm like to hear more people with that sort of performance.
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Old 26-09-2008, 06:11   #14
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Let me rephrase that, as apparent wind is a product of tacking angle and boat speed, (the angle moves in relation to the boat speed) I would ask what is the tacking angle from full luff >>>all sails flogging.....to full either side. This is the full charted angle that you need to plot to keep you safe. (+ 10 deg) margin......
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Old 26-09-2008, 06:52   #15
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Yeah, I was just hoping someone could find video of the 1988 AC for me.

All I've seen is a short segment from a sports show. I'd like to see more.
This place has 2 one hour videos for sale or rent.

AMERICA'S CUP 1988
This 60-minute video takes you behind the scenes in New Zealand and San Diego. Provides footage of the boats being built and fills you in on the unprecedented legal maneuvering. 60 minutes


RACE FOR CUP, 1988 America's Cup
The controversial 1988 America’s Cup Race between Michael Fay and Dennis Conner, shot from New Zealand’s point of view. 60 min.


Check it out :

Seven Oceans - Maritime Video
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